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Batman

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  #2773776 7-Sep-2021 16:34
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TeaLeaf:

 

the fact a GP is in that lot bundled up by the authorities is a bit of a highlight on why people believe BS. Hes a Dr, he must know (microbiology/virology). They will use whatever ammo they can to suck in ordinary folk using "Dr Google", who just wanted facts. The internet has been an open platform for too long now. I can see how Covid will put talk into action and we will see law and maybe even protocol changes to the internet. Not for freedom of speech, or even accidental misinformation, but for in this case malicious disinformation but potentially for anything unlawful. High level changes globally, more macro at national levels. It does seem a little surreal how a virus pandemic of relatively low mortality has had such a big impact/change, some of which is permanent, to every day life. Watching a movie last night with a line applicable to this, from memory "What do people fear the most? Change" However obvious the sentence is, it is the backbone of conspiracy theories on topics that impact every day living. From there, those afraid of change, target the generalised narrative of fear to grab the layman out there looking for some answers. For this reason I turned down change management roles, further back in my career. But most of us in tech see it day to day regardless of what role we play. Just my 2c on how this whole agenda has become such a massive issue. I enjoyed the stuff article from the "plain clothed" reporter on the anti vax cell.

 

have you heard of/encountered an electrician that is clueless? a mechanic who can't fix cars? 

 

some people who are "qualified" have no idea.

 

let's just leave it at that.

 

there are a lot of knowns knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns with covid.

 

as i have explained earlier, many misinformation are based on a strand of factual observations but people use these strands, manipulate the information and come up with irrational conclusions that are incorrect.

 

and the rest are just extrapolating unknowns into whatever they like, because we just don't know some things, it's easy for mis-informers to latch on to those and make up convenient stories.




Handle9
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  #2773779 7-Sep-2021 16:46
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TeaLeaf:  neither does allowing the above exercise, let alone using Gyms, which at the bare minimum should have mandatory air ventilation that expels not only carbon but aerosol spittle at a designated legal requirement,

 

You can power the system with a flux capacitor


Bung
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  #2773883 7-Sep-2021 19:42
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Oblivian:

Comes down to the facility. But logic would state that's not a team sport. And thus can't occur due distancing. Just like Gym 1:1 cannot.



Unless you can find some odd rule that limits how small a team can be logic would have a team sport being any event with opponents. I don't see any difference between groups of people from 1:1 up and the same number of individuals competing against each other in an event.

The following being plucked from current L2 rules.

"When exercising in public, try to keep a 2 metre distance from people you do not know if possible."

"You do not need to wear a face covering when participating in team sports."

"At Alert Level 2, team sports events can continue. These are limited to 50 people in indoors venues and 100 people at outdoor venues. The 100 person limit includes players and spectators. Referees, officials and other workers providing services to a sports game are not included in the 100 people."



Oblivian
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  #2773889 7-Sep-2021 20:02
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Bung: Unless you can find some odd rule that limits how small a team can be logic would have a team sport being any event with opponents. I don't see any difference between groups of people from 1:1 up and the same number of individuals competing against each other in an event.

The following being plucked from current L2 rules.

"When exercising in public, try to keep a 2 metre distance from people you do not know if possible."

"You do not need to wear a face covering when participating in team sports."

"At Alert Level 2, team sports events can continue. These are limited to 50 people in indoors venues and 100 people at outdoor venues. The 100 person limit includes players and spectators. Referees, officials and other workers providing services to a sports game are not included in the 100 people."

 

That's why I suggest there will need to be some logic applied. As the government aren't seemingly mothering every single detail once again.

 

If you further cherry pick from the same page with as little specifics as possible. Boxing /MMA last I checked, are still classified as happening in a 'gym'. And the below isn't exclusive to with 'such as' being examples.

 

At Alert Level 2, indoor sports facilities such as gyms, swimming pools, dance studios and health clubs can open, but with extra safety measures.

 

You will need to keep 2 metres apart from others. Facilities may restrict numbers to help with physical distancing.


Batman

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  #2773980 7-Sep-2021 21:09
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21 cases today, all in AKL

 

of yesterday's 20 ... if i'm reading correctly ... there were 3 mystery cases?

 

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/21-new-covid-cases-govt-finalising-vaccine-deal

 

 


Oblivian
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  #2773983 7-Sep-2021 21:15
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24? unlinked. Down from 33 yesterday. So yep

Keep adding new places of interest too.

DS248
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  #2774010 7-Sep-2021 21:41
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Quick update on Israeli C19 data since like NZ they are a 'Pfizer only' country.  So of interest here.

 

Separate comparisons by age group (not shown here) indicate that 4 - 6 mths after people had their second  dose, the vaccine was having minimal if any impact on infection rates at low and moderate levels of restrictions.  Since Delta hit in June, they experienced a sharp spike in cases, with 7-day average daily new cases hitting an all time high for Israel of over 9700 at the end of August (despite very high levels of adult vaccination).

 

A little less clear on serious illness and deaths but ...

 

They started administering 3rd doses in ~July with the rate ramped up significantly from the start of August.  In the 60+ age groups, 64% to 76% have now had a third dose, and increasing numbers of younger age groups (16+) are now receiving third doses (10% to 53% for 50-59 year olds).

 

Plots below indicate that the 3rd Pfizer doses are starting to impact the case rate for serious illness (bottom chart), and serious illness cases and deaths now appear to have peaked in parallel with, or even in advance of the peak in case numbers (top chart).  

 

  • Clear impact seen in the serious illness ratios from ~10 Aug.
  • Prior to that the lagged ratio of serious illness to new cases had remained similar to the long-term average since May 2020 (commonly ~2% to 3%) despite the high levels of vaccination.
  • Case numbers may also have peaked, though the high was only ~a week ago.  Not easy to disentangle the impact of the third doses and increased restrictions in that case but age band data (not shown here) suggests the third doses are a significant factor there also. 

 

 


 
 
 

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sbiddle
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  #2774097 8-Sep-2021 06:20
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Novavax expected to be our first booster https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126305616/covid-19-novavax-expected-to-be-first-covid19-booster-vaccine-in-new-zealand

 

I've been a huge fan of the Novavax fan for a long time (and own a lot of their shares!) and have said for months that I'd love a jab as my booster, but the comments from Hipkins really do concern me.

 

NZ and Australia based are both in the situation they're in because of the massive failure of Novavax to bring a product to market. Even now the vaccine still doesn't have approval anywhere in the world and production is still a major issue. It's still a huge unknown.

 

It seems that we've decided we aren't ordering any more Pfizer jabs as boosters at this point (unlike Australia who have these ready to go from the start of 2022) and are entering into a very high risk game if once again Novavax fail to deliver a safe and effective product to market.

 

We're talking about a few hundred million dollars to commit to a reasonable sized Pfizer order which is peanuts in the grant scheme of things, and yet out Govt don't seem interested. If Novavax can deliver and ends up being the silver bullet of vaccines we're going to be in a great position and could sell (or even donate) our Pfizer to somebody else who needs them, but right now we seem to have the same mindset that got us in the position we're in now with one of the slowest vaccine rollouts in the world because we put too much faith in the sales pitch for Novavax.

 

 


Geektastic
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  #2774182 8-Sep-2021 08:12
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It seems unwise to commit to Novavax on such a grand scale. What happens if it never gets approved even if it gets made?





tdgeek
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  #2774197 8-Sep-2021 08:31
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Geektastic: It seems unwise to commit to Novavax on such a grand scale. What happens if it never gets approved even if it gets made?

 

Its just an order, and not due till early 2022. Between now and then more will be known about any booster options. Its very much a moving target. We could start doing Pfizer now as a booster for the early vaccinated, but who's to know if that's a great option or ends up as a poor option? The benefit of elimination, and the time that gives us, is that we can commit WHEN we have a better idea of effectiveness of boosters


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  #2774202 8-Sep-2021 08:40
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TeaLeaf: It does seem a little surreal how a virus pandemic of relatively low mortality has had such a big impact/change, some of which is permanent, to every day life.

 

This is a bit like the people who scoffed at the Y2K predictions of doom, particularly in retrospect. If there hadn't been a concerted effort to fix date-based systems before 31/12/1999, there would have been widespread problems. Because of the panic to get them fixed, there was no disaster and the skeptics were able to scoff.

 

Likewise with covid... if it wasn't for the changes made, mortality would have been around 10% as hospitals overflowed. Examples include Wuhan, northern Italy, New Jersey. I believe it was the sight of northern Italy that propelled NZ into its first lockdown. Because of those measures covid is under varying levels of control and the anti-vaxxers are able to point to a 0.3% mortality rate. And then complain about the loss of freedom and call for the measures to be stopped.

 

 


DS248
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  #2774228 8-Sep-2021 09:03
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sbiddle:

 

Novavax expected to be our first booster https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126305616/covid-19-novavax-expected-to-be-first-covid19-booster-vaccine-in-new-zealand

 

...

 

 

 

Part of the government's price negotiation strategy with Pfizer? 


Fred99
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  #2774245 8-Sep-2021 09:31
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DS248:

 

sbiddle:

 

Novavax expected to be our first booster https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126305616/covid-19-novavax-expected-to-be-first-covid19-booster-vaccine-in-new-zealand

 

...

 

 

 

Part of the government's price negotiation strategy with Pfizer? 

 

 

And/or crappy reporting by Stuff.

 

Maybe they "floated the idea" of rolling out Novavax as a booster.

 

It gets a personal nope from me at this point in time, I won't be getting jabbed with any Covid vaccine or booster that doesn't have FDA EUA.


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