2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2443573 22-Mar-2020 11:02

Fred99:

America is in deep, deep trouble

Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, West Virginia and Florida have the highest median age population...

gchiu

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#2443574 22-Mar-2020 11:04

BTW, it was a failure of political leadership that lead to the devastation of NZ in the 1918 pandemic. They failed to heed the best medical advice. And it's happening again.

Geektastic

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#2443579 22-Mar-2020 11:07

gchiu:
The Iwi shutting down their borders are doing the right thing ..except they can't allow even residents back until they've been quarantined outside their containment area. Which is what WE should have done to all travellers returning to NZ. Maori lost 5% of their population during the 1918 pandemic.

The corollary is that 95% survived then?

jonathan18

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#2443580 22-Mar-2020 11:11

Fred99:

FWIW, many of my son's friends went out to some party/gig last night. They're in their 20s and apparently either think they're bulletproof - or perhaps they just don't care:

They need to be shown articles like this - they need to have the &%^$ shaken out of them - because for many, the truth is not sinking in:

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy sh*t, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube.”
This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people.

“I have patients in their early 40s and, yeah, I was kind of shocked. I’m seeing people who look relatively healthy with a minimal health history, and they are completely wiped out, like they’ve been hit by a truck. This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people. Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all.”

They suddenly become unresponsive or go into respiratory failure.

Yeah, the stupidity on display is breath-taking (will end up being literally for some, I imagine). As another example, a friend's student neighbours were busy having a Corona party last night. So amusing. Similarly, our boorish neighbours seemed to be socialising pretty much as normal, going by the volume and longevity of the music last night.

I've not yet heard any argument against self-isolating my family from tomorrow; now just need to ensure it'll be supported by work.

jonathan18

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#2443581 22-Mar-2020 11:13

Geektastic:
gchiu:

The Iwi shutting down their borders are doing the right thing ..except they can't allow even residents back until they've been quarantined outside their containment area. Which is what WE should have done to all travellers returning to NZ. Maori lost 5% of their population during the 1918 pandemic.

The corollary is that 95% survived then?

Wow, your posts never fail to deliver, even in these times.

gchiu

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#2443583 22-Mar-2020 11:16

People are surviving but there's evidence of cardiopulmonary damage as a result of the infection, and I presume renal as well. There are going to be months of rehab for these people in the future.

Maori and Pasifika are going to be much worse off than others, and worse than in 1918 because their health is much worse now than then. This disease is worsened by co-morbidities of hypertension, diabetes, heart disease, asthma and obesity.

If you weigh 150 kg, who is going to be able to look after you in ICU?

Fred99

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#2443584 22-Mar-2020 11:25

freitasm:

Fred99:

America is in deep, deep trouble

Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, West Virginia and Florida have the highest median age population...

Yes while that partly explains the horrific case fatality rate in Italy (so far), it doesn't mean that older people are safer where the median age is lower. Fewer may die because there are fewer of them - but the only possible benefit is that it will slow down saturation of the healthcare system - but not by much. Older people (and/or those with health conditions) are at just as much risk here or anywhere once containment fails.

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kingdragonfly

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#2443585 22-Mar-2020 11:25

New York Times: Need a Coronavirus Test? Being Rich and Famous May Help

A shortage in testing has left sick people and health care workers around the U.S. without answers. Yet the list of celebrity patients grows every day, raising questions about privileged access.

Politicians, celebrities, social media influencers and even N.B.A. teams have been tested for the new coronavirus. But as that list of rich, famous and powerful people grows by the day, so do questions about whether they are getting access to testing that is denied to other Americans.

Some of these high-profile people say they are feeling ill and had good reason to be tested. Others argue that those who were found to be infected and then isolated themselves provided a good example to the public.

But with testing still in short supply in areas of the country, leaving health care workers and many sick people unable to get diagnoses, some prominent personalities have obtained tests without exhibiting symptoms or having known contact with someone who has the virus, as required by some testing guidelines. Others have refused to specify how they were tested.

Such cases have provoked accusations of elitism and preferential treatment about a testing system that has already been plagued with delays and confusion, and now stirred a new national debate that has reached the White House — with President Trump being asked at a Wednesday news conference whether “the well-connected go to the front of the line.”

“You’d have to ask them that question,” he replied, suggesting that should not be the case. “Perhaps that’s been the story of life. That does happen on occasion, and I’ve noticed where some people have been tested fairly quickly.”

Inside the N.B.A., where eight entire teams have been tested, there are differing views. Bob Myers, the president of basketball operations for the Golden State Warriors, said his team thought it would be unfair for its players to seek special access.

“We’ve been told that the testing is in short supply,” Mr. Myers said in a conference call on Tuesday, explaining that no Warriors coach, player or staff member would test until symptomatic — and only then in accord with government guidelines. “We’re not better than anybody, not worse. Just a basketball team.”

The same day, Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York, in a post on Twitter, chided the Brooklyn Nets, which managed to arrange tests for its entire roster. Four were positive, with one exhibiting symptoms.

“We wish them a speedy recovery,” Mr. de Blasio wrote. “But, with all due respect, an entire NBA team should NOT get tested for COVID-19 while there are critically ill patients waiting to be tested. Tests should not be for the wealthy, but for the sick.”

Access has proved uneven across the country, even as guidelines for who qualifies have broadened and the laboratories conducting tests have expanded, from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to state health departments and then to hospitals and private labs.

In areas of the country where the virus has been slow to appear, people have been able to obtain tests easily. But in New York, California, Washington State and Massachusetts, where the virus has spread rapidly and demand for tests is most high, it is very difficult.

The New York City Health Department has directed doctors only to order tests for patients in need of hospitalization. People with mild symptoms are being told to quarantine themselves at home. Even health care workers, at high risk of contracting the virus and transmitting it, have struggled to get tested.

In New Rochelle, a community north of Manhattan where the virus has spread, a sick mother was told she could not get tested because she hadn’t been to a global “hot spot.” In Boston, an employee at Biogen, a tech company where many dozens tested positive after a conference, was turned away because he didn’t have symptoms. On Twitter, the hashtag #CDCWontTestMe has been circulating for weeks.

In the eyes of some doctors, prominent figures appeared to be moving to the front of the line.

“As predicted, #COVID19 is exposing all of the societal inequities,” Dr. Uché Blackstock, an urgent care doctor in Brooklyn, wrote on Twitter. “It’s upsetting for me to 1) have to ration out #COVID19 testing to my patients, then 2) have to wait 5-7 days for the results, when celebrities are getting tested with ease and quick turnaround times.”

Police chiefs across the country are growing concerned that they cannot get their hands on tests.

“What’s frustrating is to continue to hear that there aren’t testing kits available, and my rank and file have to continue to answer calls for service while professional athletes and movie stars are getting tested without even showing any symptoms,” said Eddie Garcia, the police chief of San Jose, Calif., on a conference call with law enforcement officials across the country.
...

tdgeek

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#2443586 22-Mar-2020 11:26

gchiu:

What this Govt should have done was to isolate everyone who crossed into NZ and kept them in isolation camps for 14 days. If you're in Auckland, that's Whangaporoa. If Wellington, it would have been glamping in the Zealandia Sanctuary! Desperate times calls for desperate measures. Now we have probable community transmission.

The govt keeps talking about flattening the curve. This is nonsense. We needed to have stopped the infection as soon as possible through containment and isolation.

We now need to start isolating the Wairarapa (and wherever the other case was) and control all traffic between regions. We need to shut schools down to stop asymptomatic infected kids spreading the disease. These isolation measures are the only way to stop the curve from becoming its otherwise exponential trajectory. But this govt is far too concerned about the economic impact instead of saving our lives.

How many people is 6 incoming flights per day x 14? As Fred said, you end up with a death camp

We dont test incoming travellers. 60 flight s day at 200 per flight is 12,000 travellers from infected countries. Plus Wellington, Christchurch and Queenstown. We have 52 cases . Thats containment. When these incoming flights stop soon, we have plenty of containment capability for a cluster here and a cluster there. The benefit we have is that stuff all people live here

gchiu

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#2443587 22-Mar-2020 11:34

tdgeek:

How many people is 6 incoming flights per day x 14? As Fred said, you end up with a death camp

We dont test incoming travellers. 60 flight s day at 200 per flight is 12,000 travellers from infected countries. Plus Wellington, Christchurch and Queenstown. We have 52 cases . Thats containment. When these incoming flights stop soon, we have plenty of containment capability for a cluster here and a cluster there. The benefit we have is that stuff all people live here

No, you isolate inside containment camps to stop the spread inside. We don't have the tech infrastructure that China has to track everyone.

We should have started basic isolation/containment from the word go. If people didn't want to be isolated on arrival, then they could have stayed where they were.

In China everyone regardless of where you are from go automatically into isolation into separate hotel rooms for 14 days at your own expense. But it includes breakfast! ( and lunch etc ). Couples are separated so you have to pay for 2 rooms. That's worked for China and those hotels have not become death camps. Let's try and be evidence based here because that's missing from the discussion. And here we have asked people to go into voluntary 2 week isolation, and predictably they all haven't. Trust no one. At least can't we use geolocation tracking on their phones??

gchiu

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#2443588 22-Mar-2020 11:39

Some Wellington Hotels were offering rooms at $1 a night. A lot cheaper than the 300RMB per night you have to pay in China when you pay for your own isolation!

kingdragonfly

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#2443589 22-Mar-2020 11:39

Kiwi Face mask

gchiu

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#2443590 22-Mar-2020 11:40

So, I'll be better off if I pop over the Zealandia fence to grab a kiwi, skin it and wear it over my head?

MadEngineer

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#2443591 22-Mar-2020 11:40

Meanwhile in China:

Bill everyone coming into the country up front for two weeks of stay in designated accommodation for isolation.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

gchiu

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#2443592 22-Mar-2020 11:42

tdgeek:

The benefit we have is that stuff all people live here

The Govt can take over all those empty houses in Auckland to isolate everyone. Market rates to the owners of course as they were the ones that prepared all this emergency accommodation for just this scenario.

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