Lime scooters

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#2116691 30-Oct-2018 11:13

vexxxboy:

Coil:

Can't wait for a road cyclist to get hurt or killed again so they can outlaw those horrid lane hogging machines! (sarcasm)

I do side with Brownlee on this. People just making noise about it cause arguing on local facebook pages got boring.

I have been run into by a child before, may have to ban those things too! I value my safety.....

all im saying that if someone's 80 year grandmother is walking home with her groceries and some school kid crashes into her with a scooter and puts her in hospital with a broken hip , then either they will ban them or bring in really strict regulations that will take the fun out of riding them.

I get that there is a hypothetical worst case situation for everything. Heck, a vehicle going along state highway 1 might have a driver fall asleep at a wheel and smash through a pub and kill 40 people and break 5 hips.

Got to love a Nanny State approach..

SpartanVXL

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#2116692 30-Oct-2018 11:14

vexxxboy:
Coil:

Can't wait for a road cyclist to get hurt or killed again so they can outlaw those horrid lane hogging machines! (sarcasm)

I do side with Brownlee on this. People just making noise about it cause arguing on local facebook pages got boring.

I have been run into by a child before, may have to ban those things too! I value my safety.....

all im saying that if someone's 80 year grandmother is walking home with her groceries and some school kid crashes into her with a scooter and puts her in hospital with a broken hip , then either they will ban them or bring in really strict regulations that will take the fun out of riding them.

A kid is playing tag with his mates is getting chased, legs it down the street and crashes into somebodies 80 year old grandmother who then breaks her hip.

Accidents happen. You can replace the above with bikes, regular scooters skateboards, whatever. In the end it's whoever doing something being responsibly and in control versus the other person's awareness and ability to react.

MikeB4

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#2116693 30-Oct-2018 11:15

It may seem like silly moaning of etc but take a few minutes to think about this. The 'footpath' is the designated safe zone for pedestrians etc. Where the children, elderly and disabled can be safe. In the cities these pass shop entrances, lanes etc. In the suburbs they pass stores, schools and countless drive ways. In the Parks there will be children, able bodied, elderly and disabled using the safety of 'footpaths'. Now do some mathematics, think of the impact force of say a 60-70kg person travelling at say 20kph hitting someone. It would be similar to being tackled by Rugby Forward. Now consider the consquences for a 5 year old or younger, an elderly person with osteoporosis, a disabled person or an abled bodied person not expecting such an impact, first the impact blow then the pavement blow. The outcome could be life changing or life ending.

I am not advocating taking away peoples fun but we need to act fast to apply some regulation and rules concerning the use of these devices before their numbers grow and before tradgedies occur.

Linuxluver

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#2116695 30-Oct-2018 11:21

Took me a few minutes to locate it on the NZTA web site....wasn't sure what to look for....but I found the e-scooter regs.

No license. No rego. Max power of 300w.

e-Scooter regs

Of particular interest:

"E-scooters can be used on the footpath or the road – except in designated cycle lanes that are part of the road (which were designed for the sole use of cyclists).

On the footpath the user must:

operate the device in a careful and considerate manner
operate the device at a speed that does not put other footpath users at risk
give way to both pedestrians and drivers of mobility devices.

On the road, e-scooters must be operated as near as practicable to the edge of the roadway.

A helmet is not legally required to be worn when using an e-scooter, but is recommended."

_____________________________________________________________________

I've been on Geekzone over 16 years..... Time flies....

tdgeek

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#2116698 30-Oct-2018 11:25

MikeB4:

It may seem like silly moaning of etc but take a few minutes to think about this. The 'footpath' is the designated safe zone for pedestrians etc. Where the children, elderly and disabled can be safe. In the cities these pass shop entrances, lanes etc. In the suburbs they pass stores, schools and countless drive ways. In the Parks there will be children, able bodied, elderly and disabled using the safety of 'footpaths'. Now do some mathematics, think of the impact force of say a 60-70kg person travelling at say 20kph hitting someone. It would be similar to being tackled by Rugby Forward. Now consider the consquences for a 5 year old or younger, an elderly person with osteoporosis, a disabled person or an abled bodied person not expecting such an impact, first the impact blow then the pavement blow. The outcome could be life changing or life ending.

I am not advocating taking away peoples fun but we need to act fast to apply some regulation and rules concerning the use of these devices before their numbers grow and before tradgedies occur.

I fully get that, but...

Police don't care if young kids ride cycles on footpaths even though they are not supposed to, its safer than the road, that example has been mentioned on GZ.

Kids riding normal scooters fast are a problem, more so are skateboarders. Our street has a downslope, skaties hurl down there. There are already dangers, and I would not want eScooters to be allowed full speed, but a lower speed, say 12kph. Kids can already do that on manual scooters and exceed that on skateboards, you can even buy eSkateboards now. A $1000+ eScooter ridden by an adult, not an 8yo - teen is IMHO, a much lower risk. We want to go from A to B, kids want to play, sometimes out of their skill level

NzBeagle

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#2116702 30-Oct-2018 11:35

tdgeek:

Kids riding normal scooters fast are a problem, more so are skateboarders. Our street has a downslope, skaties hurl down there. There are already dangers, and I would not want eScooters to be allowed full speed, but a lower speed, say 12kph. Kids can already do that on manual scooters and exceed that on skateboards, you can even buy eSkateboards now. A $1000+ eScooter ridden by an adult, not an 8yo - teen is IMHO, a much lower risk. We want to go from A to B, kids want to play, sometimes out of their skill level

Lower speed - I wonder if there's an ability to control this remotely, limiting the speed depending on the rider, eg, competent, many scoots, you get a bit more speed, newbies are limited to 10-12. Restricting on age would be about as effective as the alcohol website asking me to tick a box that I'm 18+, or in this case, that I'm wearing a helmet on the Lime App.

tdgeek

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#2116710 30-Oct-2018 11:43

NzBeagle:

tdgeek:

Kids riding normal scooters fast are a problem, more so are skateboarders. Our street has a downslope, skaties hurl down there. There are already dangers, and I would not want eScooters to be allowed full speed, but a lower speed, say 12kph. Kids can already do that on manual scooters and exceed that on skateboards, you can even buy eSkateboards now. A $1000+ eScooter ridden by an adult, not an 8yo - teen is IMHO, a much lower risk. We want to go from A to B, kids want to play, sometimes out of their skill level

Lower speed - I wonder if there's an ability to control this remotely, limiting the speed depending on the rider, eg, competent, many scoots, you get a bit more speed, newbies are limited to 10-12. Restricting on age would be about as effective as the alcohol website asking me to tick a box that I'm 18+, or in this case, that I'm wearing a helmet on the Lime App.

Ideally a speed limiter for use on footpaths, but NZTA says this

operate the device in a careful and considerate manner
operate the device at a speed that does not put other footpath users at risk
give way to both pedestrians and drivers of mobility devices

So, ensure the public know the Police will enforce this by instant tickets. It needs to be a concern for eScooter riders that they are being watched, behave or pay. Instant fine, payable in 7 days, no recourse. A hard line.

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MikeB4

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#2116711 30-Oct-2018 11:43

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

It may seem like silly moaning of etc but take a few minutes to think about this. The 'footpath' is the designated safe zone for pedestrians etc. Where the children, elderly and disabled can be safe. In the cities these pass shop entrances, lanes etc. In the suburbs they pass stores, schools and countless drive ways. In the Parks there will be children, able bodied, elderly and disabled using the safety of 'footpaths'. Now do some mathematics, think of the impact force of say a 60-70kg person travelling at say 20kph hitting someone. It would be similar to being tackled by Rugby Forward. Now consider the consquences for a 5 year old or younger, an elderly person with osteoporosis, a disabled person or an abled bodied person not expecting such an impact, first the impact blow then the pavement blow. The outcome could be life changing or life ending.

I am not advocating taking away peoples fun but we need to act fast to apply some regulation and rules concerning the use of these devices before their numbers grow and before tradgedies occur.

I fully get that, but...

Police don't care if young kids ride cycles on footpaths even though they are not supposed to, its safer than the road, that example has been mentioned on GZ.

Kids riding normal scooters fast are a problem, more so are skateboarders. Our street has a downslope, skaties hurl down there. There are already dangers, and I would not want eScooters to be allowed full speed, but a lower speed, say 12kph. Kids can already do that on manual scooters and exceed that on skateboards, you can even buy eSkateboards now. A $1000+ eScooter ridden by an adult, not an 8yo - teen is IMHO, a much lower risk. We want to go from A to B, kids want to play, sometimes out of their skill level

Again do the mathematics, given the average weight of a 5 year old is 18KG and an 8 year old is 25kg, the work applied in a collision for an adult is considerable higher than that of a child. As for using bikes from memory I believe children over 5 are not allowed to ride on the footpath. The real danger is the use of these scooters by adults in cities, however with the rise of alternative transprt it is propably time that councils redesign the footpaths to allow for safe sharing EG like Wellingtons Oriental Parade and make the footpaths a lot wider probably at the expense of narrower roads. Cities may have to look seriously at restricting car use in cities to make allowances for alternative transport.

tdgeek

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#2116714 30-Oct-2018 11:56

MikeB4:

Again do the mathematics, given the average weight of a 5 year old is 18KG and an 8 year old is 25kg, the work applied in a collision for an adult is considerable higher than that of a child. As for using bikes from memory I believe children over 5 are not allowed to ride on the footpath. The real danger is the use of these scooters by adults in cities, however with the rise of alternative transprt it is propably time that councils redesign the footpaths to allow for safe sharing EG like Wellingtons Oriental Parade and make the footpaths a lot wider probably at the expense of narrower roads. Cities may have to look seriously at restricting car use in cities to make allowances for alternative transport.

I dont disagree. What I see is that there are already existing dangers for footpath users. Kids on scooters going fast, skateboarders going fast to stupid fast. They have low skill and the scooter and skateboard are not as easy to control, but an eScooter ridden by as adult is safer due to more skill, more maturity, and the body is not involved i n helping the vehicle along so more stable

I'd like to see skateboards off footpaths. Thats not fair for responsible boarders. Id like to see designated cycle lanes available for eScooters. A scooter is a bicycle by definition. And they are not the fastest bicycle, so why not let eScooters on designated cycle lanes, its a cycle. So, lets do that, and if there is a cycle lane, banned from footpath. No cycle lane, use the road. But IMHO a responsible rider is safe on the footpath for pedestrians and prams and mobility scooters.

18 and over too? That's a bit nanny state but it will remove it from being a toy

MikeAqua

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#2116715 30-Oct-2018 11:57

Linuxluver:

It would be the same rules as for a pedestrian or mobility scooter and they can be summarised as "watch where you're going don't be a dick".

If only last part was actually law ...

Mike

SpartanVXL

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#2116717 30-Oct-2018 12:00

Has everybody had a chance to ride these yet? They have an accelerator and proper brakes, its not like everybody hoons on them.

MikeB4:

Again do the mathematics, given the average weight of a 5 year old is 18KG and an 8 year old is 25kg, the work applied in a collision for an adult is considerable higher than that of a child. As for using bikes from memory I believe children over 5 are not allowed to ride on the footpath. The real danger is the use of these scooters by adults in cities, however with the rise of alternative transprt it is propably time that councils redesign the footpaths to allow for safe sharing EG like Wellingtons Oriental Parade and make the footpaths a lot wider probably at the expense of narrower roads. Cities may have to look seriously at restricting car use in cities to make allowances for alternative transport.

Bikes are probably the easiest example of why regulations wouldn't matter. Kids all the way up to high school ride on the footpath and the majority never bats an eye. I know I did and the school endorsed it with safety classes and proper teaching.

Really, now that its getting into summer I see parents on their bikes going 10-15 alongside their children who are riding their own. No officer is going to pull over the family cause they're doing a Sunday casual ride on the footpath instead of the road.

jonathan18

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#2116719 30-Oct-2018 12:06

MikeAqua:
Linuxluver:

It would be the same rules as for a pedestrian or mobility scooter and they can be summarised as "watch where you're going don't be a dick".

If only last part was actually law ...

It basically is, given the wording of the quote from the regulations:

On the footpath the user must:

operate the device in a careful and considerate manner
operate the device at a speed that does not put other footpath users at risk
give way to both pedestrians and drivers of mobility devices.

Breaching any of those requirements would appropriately have the transgressor being labelled a dick, I reckon.

The bigger issue will be whether or not the police actually police these requirements. Given their track record in how well other driving laws and regulations are policed (roundabouts, phones, signaling...) I don't hold out much hope.

MikeB4

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#2116724 30-Oct-2018 12:16

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

Again do the mathematics, given the average weight of a 5 year old is 18KG and an 8 year old is 25kg, the work applied in a collision for an adult is considerable higher than that of a child. As for using bikes from memory I believe children over 5 are not allowed to ride on the footpath. The real danger is the use of these scooters by adults in cities, however with the rise of alternative transprt it is propably time that councils redesign the footpaths to allow for safe sharing EG like Wellingtons Oriental Parade and make the footpaths a lot wider probably at the expense of narrower roads. Cities may have to look seriously at restricting car use in cities to make allowances for alternative transport.

I dont disagree. What I see is that there are already existing dangers for footpath users. Kids on scooters going fast, skateboarders going fast to stupid fast. They have low skill and the scooter and skateboard are not as easy to control, but an eScooter ridden by as adult is safer due to more skill, more maturity, and the body is not involved i n helping the vehicle along so more stable

I'd like to see skateboards off footpaths. Thats not fair for responsible boarders. Id like to see designated cycle lanes available for eScooters. A scooter is a bicycle by definition. And they are not the fastest bicycle, so why not let eScooters on designated cycle lanes, its a cycle. So, lets do that, and if there is a cycle lane, banned from footpath. No cycle lane, use the road. But IMHO a responsible rider is safe on the footpath for pedestrians and prams and mobility scooters.

18 and over too? That's a bit nanny state but it will remove it from being a toy

Changing our cities has happen. For example a big chunk of the Wellington CBD could be made off limits to cars from say 11pm Friday to 11pm Sunday especially from Lambton Quay along Willis Street to Manners Street then Manners St to Taranaki. This would open the CBD to bikes, scooters and pedestrians and bring the city to life.

tdgeek

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#2116730 30-Oct-2018 12:25

MikeB4:

Changing our cities has happen. For example a big chunk of the Wellington CBD could be made off limits to cars from say 11pm Friday to 11pm Sunday especially from Lambton Quay along Willis Street to Manners Street then Manners St to Taranaki. This would open the CBD to bikes, scooters and pedestrians and bring the city to life.

100%. I support cycle lanes and less cars

MikeB4

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#2116784 30-Oct-2018 12:45

Maybe the only regulation needed is the ACC given the authority to recover the full cost of an incident from the person deemed to have caused it. That includes cyclists, skate boarders, Escooter riders and car drivers. That may stop people being dicks.

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