EVs - Test Drives and Impressions of NZ Available Models

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#3176458 31-Dec-2023 06:49

People seem to have latched on to the word “sluggish” and missed the sentence further on where I commented about it still having plenty of “urge”. Its power delivery is different from my Model 3. It is more progressive than steam catapult like. From what I have read this is deliberate by the BYD engineers.

Admittedly I only tried the Seal in “Normal” mode. But that is the way I would normally drive, so that is the way I test. I’m more interested in getting an idea for energy efficiency to determine an approximate real world range. For a relatively short drive (about 30km) a couple of hard accelerations (ie 0-100 tests that reviewers are obsessed by) will distort the results.

When I gave my feedback to the salesperson, he suggested I take the Performance for a drive. I will when I get time in the New Year. But it would be a hard sell to spend the extra $11000 for performance I will never use. If I did, I would likely get the “3.8s” badge removed from the boot even though that is the only outward indication the car is the Performance. I guess “Dual Motor” with a red underline was already taken😬.

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#3201692 29-Feb-2024 16:54

Tesla Model 3 RWD 2024 (Project Highland)

TLDR: An incremental upgrade on my 2022 Model 3 RWD. Missing “bits” not the end of the world. Not as big a difference as I was expecting. I won't be upgrading.

Got the opportunity to take a white 2024 Model 3 RWD (highland) for my standard test drive ($68000 drive-away). I wanted to try this one first because it retains the LFP battery and it was easier to determine how incremental the upgrade is in a iPhone 14 Pro -> iPhone 15 Pro (or S23U to S24U if you prefer) kind of way. So I’m not going to cover stuff already done in my original Model 3 report, or the Model Y one.

Pros

I like the ventilated front seats. 3 speeds or Auto settings. The seats aren’t quite as cushioned as the old ones. Same adjustments and lumbar support on driver’s seat only still.

While beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the head and taillights look better and the red is the colour I wish mine was (more like a “Mazda Red”). The aero caps, being black, look better than the previous grey ones.

From my drive, it is about 10% more efficient than my car. So a real world range of 470-480km? That is kind of in line with the WLTP of 540km-10% that Teslas actually seem to achieve.

The Model 3 now has an official tow rating for NZ. 750kg.

Blindspot monitoring led (more later).

Nice interior accent lighting. LED strip can be set to be on all the time or auto. Choose what colour you want.

Cons

I'll address the obvious first. The lack of stalks on the steering column. I still believe this is a retrograde step and has been done purely to cut costs. The “indicator” (left) stalk, which provided control of the indicators, washer/wiper and hi/lo beams has been replaced by buttons on the left steering wheel spoke. Left and right indicator buttons (right above left with a raised edge between them) and a headlight toggle button, which you press briefly to flash, and press and hold to toggle between hi and lo beam. The left scroll wheel is retained and has the same functions as previously. What I did find is it’s very easy to accidentally operate the indicators while trying to use the scroll wheel. And while not impossible, it is definitely move difficult to operate the indicators when the steering wheel isn’t level. The washer/wiper control is now a button on the right steering wheel spoke. Also on the right spoke (below the wiper button) is a microphone button. This activates the voice assistant, which used to be done by pressing the right hand scroll wheel. The right scroll wheel now acts as the way to engage TACC (traffic aware cruise control) by pressing once, and Autopilot by pressing twice (unless you have 1 press autopilot activation selected in settings - same as old model). These functions used to be activated by pulling down on the right stalk. In my opinion, the autopilot controls are no worse than the old ones. The only thing about pressing the scroll wheel vs operating the stalk for these functions is, its two taps down on the stalk to be in autopilot and one tap up to disengage, whereas the scroll wheel is two clicks to engage, then another click to disengage. Don’t be surprised if you manage to operate the wipers and activate the voice assistant on your way to engaging autopilot. And that to me is the biggest shortcoming of this approach. While the old controls were minimal enough, they fall easily to hand without taking your eyes off the road. The new controls need to be found and then pressed. “You’ll get used to it” shouldn’t be used to excuse shortcomings in the human/machine interface.

The other function previously done by the right stalk is “gear selection” (not a very accurate term for an EV, would “vector selector” be better?😁). This is now done on the right hand edge of the centre display. Swipe up to go forwards, swipe down to reverse. Park is a button at the top and neutral is a button at the bottom. There are secondary selector buttons above the rear view mirror in case your screen is off. Once again, I’m sure you would get used to it, but it requires you to look to select rather than just flicking the stalk up or down. The system is supposedly clever enough to figure out which way you are going to go and will automatically select forward or reverse for you. But you still need to check it has done it correctly.

The other con is the removal of the ultrasonic sensors. The camera only system doesn’t currently inspire much confidence. The images are very fuzzy (they will get better with updates - apparently). Particularly since there is no front bumper camera, I can see the front splitter getting curbed pretty easily.

It’s not really a con compared to the old model, but I would rather they put the second display in front of the driver than on the back of the centre console for the (non existent in my case) rear seat passengers. Having your passengers look down toward the centre of the cabin for extended periods sounds like a great way to induce car sickness.

Barely Different

There are a bunch of things that are supposedly “new and improved” but (imo) the driving experience was hardly any different to my current vehicle.

Ride quality wasn’t hugely different despite suspension improvements. It is still harsh on ruts and speed bumps. Road Noise is also supposedly less. I could possibly convince myself it is, but it is marginal.

Ventilation is slightly better, but still lags behind other EVs I have driven.

Wing mirrors are still don’t have enough lateral adjustment. Half the mirror still looks along the side of the car. The one improvement is a tiny red led in the speaker cover at the front side window. Just bear in mind the sun that is blinding you in the mirror, will also be blinding the cameras, so there won’t be any blindspot protection in that case (no USS that most cars use for blindspot monitoring).

Audio is “improved”, but I couldn’t pick it. This is only the basic audio because it is the RWD.

The centre display is slightly larger with smaller bezels, but essentially the same.

Voice assistant is no more accurate

In summary, the new Model 3 is in no way bad and of course has the benefits of all Teslas in the frequent software updates and the Supercharger network. Also the app is the best out there. It’s just not enough of an upgrade from my current Model 3, particularly with the shortcomings listed in the “cons” section.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#3201708 29-Feb-2024 17:41

Dingbatt:From my drive, it is about 10% more efficient than my car.

can battery degradation explain this?

Dingbatt

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#3201713 29-Feb-2024 17:51

Batman:

Dingbatt:From my drive, it is about 10% more efficient than my car.

can battery degradation explain this?

Over the same route where the new one did 118Wh/km, my car did 130Wh/km (same day, same driving conditions). This is borne out by the standardised tests showing a 10% improvement in range.

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Mehrts

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#3201747 29-Feb-2024 18:49

Dingbatt:

While the old controls were minimal enough, they fall easily to hand without taking your eyes off the road. The new controls need to be found and then pressed. “You’ll get used to it” shouldn’t be used to excuse shortcomings in the human/machine interface.

This is my view too. Sure you can get used to it, but you shouldn't have to get used to a prime vehicle control. It should feel somewhat natural.

I test drove the new Model 3 last week, and came to very much the same conclusion as you. It's a slight upgrade over my '23 RWD Model 3. Ventilated seats would be the only thing I'd like to have, and that Ultra Red paint.

Suspension was also only a little softer, and the road noise was a little quieter. Nothing substantial like some people are saying. But that's subjective.

Couldn't care about the ambient lighting, or the back seat display since I hardly have back seat passengers.

I found the stitching on the back of the steering wheel to be quite rough. The previous models all had the stitching on the inside of the wheel instead of the back, so you didn't feel it. The steering felt lighter compared to my car with the same settings.

The glovebox seems like a small shelf now, instead of a usable storage space. It feels like it's held shut with magnets.
The carpet lining on the boot lid interior seems cheap too, and would get dirty real quick.
The interior on the RWD feels like it's very basic and cheap. I was wanting to compare it to a Long Range model with the premium interior, but there were none available.

Overall, my impression was it's a slight upgrade, and not one worthy to make me think about going for it. I'll see what the next refresh/facelift looks like in a couple of years.

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#3243020 31-May-2024 08:29

I am renting the Toyota BZ4X while we are in Norway this year. It is the top specced model with AWD, ventilated seats and all the extras.

Impression so far is that it is a very comfortable car to drive. Set up a lot softer than the Model Y that I have in NZ.

Interesting to see that the car monitors the driver more than the Tesla does. If the IR cameras that are behind the steering wheel is blocked for any reason, the car starts to complain.

Also experienced the car slowing down when on cruise control if there is a truck in the opposite lane. But not as hard as the Tesla can do sometimes. (Which seems to happen here a lot more than in NZ, probably because a lot of roads are narrower here than in NZ).

Something I am missing in the Toyota is a way to set up the car to always allow for regenerative breaking / one pedal driving, and to be set up with "hold" (that is, the car keep still by itself when you stop). That is something that is set up once and for all in the Tesla, but has to be turned on for every single drive in the Toyota.

I am enjoying a silent and the soft suspension of the Toyota, but I have to admit I am missing my Tesla.

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NzBeagle

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#3243058 31-May-2024 09:40

jarledb:

Interesting to see that the car monitors the driver more than the Tesla does. If the IR cameras that are behind the steering wheel is blocked for any reason, the car starts to complain.

Also experienced the car slowing down when on cruise control if there is a truck in the opposite lane. But not as hard as the Tesla can do sometimes. (Which seems to happen here a lot more than in NZ, probably because a lot of roads are narrower here than in NZ).

Something I am missing in the Toyota is a way to set up the car to always allow for regenerative breaking / one pedal driving, and to be set up with "hold" (that is, the car keep still by itself when you stop). That is something that is set up once and for all in the Tesla, but has to be turned on for every single drive in the Toyota.

I found the IR sensors a bit annoying when you're sitting in stop/go motorway in NZ, but understand it's important.
I was pleased that you could select standard cruise which I prefer in some motorway conditions.
Also found it annoying that the regen reset every drive, it's far too light on standard, although I'm lead to believe that applying the brake pedal will use regen.

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jarledb

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#3243454 31-May-2024 22:44

I agree completely that the regen is way too weak, I would have liked to have a true one pedal driving option.

Dingbatt

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#3344882 20-Feb-2025 12:37

2025 BYD Sealion 7

As tested: Single motor RWD 82.5kWh ‘Premium’ Model ($68K+orc)

TLDR: Quiet and comfortable, with a good level of tech. Not particularly efficient due to weight.

BYD have only brought 2 of the 3 models available overseas to NZ. The Premium ($68K single motor 82.5kWh) and the Performance ($80K dual motor 82.5kWh). Aside from the AWD, extra motor and power, the Performance gets a heated steering wheel and heated rear seats and 20” instead of 19” wheels. That’s it for the extra $12000.
We aren’t getting the other variant available overseas here which is the Performance spec but with a 92kWh battery.

BYD have also dropped the nice light blue metallic colour they had when the Seal launched. So just black, white, steel blue/grey, and Shark grey. According to the salesperson, all colours except white are an extra $980. This is not reflected on the BYD website, which shows the same price for all colours. Possibly because the Model Y Juniper launch price has no paint premium.

Looks are subjective and in reality it is a jacked up version of the Seal. Although it is slightly longer and wider as well as taller. It is a big vehicle but has a nicer roofline than the Sealion 6, sloping down more in the rear third.

On the inside, it has vinyl seats (call it fake or vegan leather, or whatever you like). The front seats are electric with heating and ventilation. The driver’s seat has 2-way lumbar support (important to me) and both (I think) also have thigh adjustment (driver’s definitely). The interior is all black and the back seat feels a bit cavern-like particularly if you have the roof shade closed. With the shade open it feels much more airy. I like that they have fitted the retractable shade to the panoramic sunroof for those hot summer days. Something other manufacturers could learn from.

Tech-wise (this is Geekzone afterall)

The infotainment in BYD's offerings seems to be improving all the time. The Sealion 7 has the usual BYD rotating centre display, although I can't see me ever using it in portrait. It has wireless Android Auto and Apple CarPlay and both look great on the 15" display (I got the salesman to connect his iPhone as I use Android Auto). Wallpaper on the homescreen is also selectable. BYD has listened to feedback and there is a pull up gesture to bring up full hvac controls and a pull down gesture to access the quick menu (very android like). Best of all the fan speed is adjusted with a 3-finger horizontal swipe and the temperature a 3-finger vertical swipe. So the lack of physical buttons for those functions is somewhat moot.

What I really like as far as connectivity goes is that when in Android Auto, the info flows through to the car systems and displays. I navigated to my home using Android Auto and the navigation instructions were replicated on both the driver's display and the HUD. The HUD particularly showed next turn instructions as well as VR arrows. It also worked well with the OEM Nav, which I used on the way back to the dealership. The HUD also displays speed, speed limit sign, cruise set speed, and ADAS. In reality, the only better HUDs I've seen are in much more expensive vehicles from Skoda, BMW and Mercedes.

The centre console has 1 ventilated wireless phone charger (labeled as Max 50W). It is obviously configured for the LHD market because it is the further of the 2 spots from the driver. Behind that is the gear selector, the same 'jewel' style as in the Seal. RND with a separate P button. Also in that same area are buttons hazard lights, autobrake, Media volume, regen, drive modes, hvac on/off, window demist and the all important START/STOP button for the vehicle. I say "all important" because I am guilty of just getting out of vehicles and walking away because that's what I do with my Tesla. Behind that are two variable height cup holders and a good sized console bin. The back of the console has two vents and a USB-A and USB-C port for the rear seat passengers.

The back seats are a 60/40 split with a fold down armrest/cupholder. The seat backs can be reclined to different angles.

More to come……….(cup of tea time)🙂

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#3344885 20-Feb-2025 12:45

Dingbatt:

2025 BYD Sealion 7

As tested: Single motor RWD 82.5kWh ‘Premium’ Model ($68K+orc)

TLDR: Quiet and comfortable, with a good level of tech. Not particularly efficient due to weight.

[SNIP]

More to come……….(just stopping for some lunch)🙂

How is the Regen in this car? I have the Atto3 and the weak Regen is the main issue I have with it and I doubt it can be fixed with a firmware upgrade

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#3344907 20-Feb-2025 14:23

I must have reached the limit of my edits in the previous post, so I will continue here:

Sealion 7

Firstly to answer Ichiu

I didn't play round with the regen amounts. I don't think it has 1 pedal driving, though I stand to be corrected.

The boot has a powered tailgate but no cargo cover. It has a small underfloor area. Enough for charging cables, etc. The size of the boot, I would call adequate, but not class leading. Plenty of cargo hooks though. The audio system subwoofer is on the right side wall of the boot. While I'm talking about the audio system, I would class it as 'okay'. The bonnet is manual release to reveal a reasonable size frunk.

Driving

Visibility is pretty good, with a nice high seating position, although the B pillar is quite chunky. I could still do a reasonable shoulder check, but it was hardly necessary because the wing mirrors are nice and large with a good field of view with BSM indicators. Indicating also brings up a camera view on the centre display and the HUD also has BSM.

The rear window is pretty small. You'll be relying on the cameras (which are really good and clear) to reverse. It has 360 birdseye views and dynamic guidelines as well, and ultrasonic sensors.

On the road the ride was really comfortable and quiet, much softer than most of the EVs I've tried and particularly the Tesla 3 & Y. Low levels of wind and road noise as well. I imagine it doesn't corner like my Model 3, but then I drive like a grandad most of the time anyway. Bearing in mind this was the single motor 230kW, it still had a decent amount of pickup, but just like I commented in my Seal review, the delivery is smooth and gradual rather than punchy. I have already arranged to try the Performance version when it arrives. The adaptive cruise is good, the lane keeping I would call acceptable. Not as good as my TM3, but better than a lot I have tried. The one thing is does that I like, is it resumes after you complete a lane change.

Because it has an LFP battery, its charging speeds aren't as high. Maxing out at 150kW DC and 11kW AC.

I don't have any experience with the BYD App but entry and operation can be done with key, card or NFC on your phone.

Doing my usual test route (urban, extra-urban and motorway) the car did 168Wh/km. So for a 82.5kWh battery that is 491km. So pretty close to the claimed WLTP of 480km. Not great efficiency, but not terrible for a 2.2T SUV either.

Conclusion

I like this car. Its size and efficiency make me pause. If they could put the tech from this in the Seal that had a liftback, it would be perfect.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

lchiu7

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#3344974 20-Feb-2025 15:38

Dingbatt:

I must have reached the limit of my edits in the previous post, so I will continue here:

Sealion 7

Firstly to answer Ichiu

I didn't play round with the regen amounts. I don't think it has 1 pedal driving, though I stand to be corrected.

[SNIP]

Any idea if the car has this feature?

https://www.drive.com.au/news/byd-launches-driver-assistance-tech-with-ai-integration-including-for-its-cheapest-models/

Supposed to be in the Sealion on overseas models.

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#3344976 20-Feb-2025 15:46

lchiu7:

How is the Regen in this car? I have the Atto3 and the weak Regen is the main issue I have with it and I doubt it can be fixed with a firmware upgrade

By all accounts the regen is pretty weak on all BYD vehicles (judging by the first drive previews that are emerging online) and doesn't bring the car to an full stop.

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#3345033 20-Feb-2025 18:51

lchiu7:

Any idea if the car has this feature?

snip….

Supposed to be in the Sealion on overseas models.

I believe this is the “Gods Eye” system that BYD has announced recently, that will be in their entire range from the BYD Seagull Mini all the way to the YangWang U9 Supercar. At no extra cost. Set to be rolled out in cars this year, but I would expect to be in the higher end vehicles and China only for a start.

It has three levels, the simplest of which (GodsEye C) requires 12 cameras, 12 USS, a millimetric wave radar. It also requires processors capable of 100 trillion operations per second (100TOPS). There are a few other requirements for display sizes. In NZ, the Shark, Seal, Sealion6 and Sealion7 definitely have the sensor and display requirements but I’m not sure about the processors. This level is called DiPilot 100.

There are higher levels, GodsEye B (DiPilot 300) which adds a lidar above the windscreen and a faster processor; and GodsEye A (DiPilot 600) which has 3 lidars and an even faster processor.

The Aussie YouTuber “Beyond EV” has just put out a video explaining it very well.

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#3345035 20-Feb-2025 19:07

maoriboy:

lchiu7:

How is the Regen in this car? I have the Atto3 and the weak Regen is the main issue I have with it and I doubt it can be fixed with a firmware upgrade

By all accounts the regen is pretty weak on all BYD vehicles (judging by the first drive previews that are emerging online) and doesn't bring the car to an full stop.

The drivers display in the SL7 has a power meter (digital readout actually) which shows (in kW) energy use and also recuperation. I saw up -15 to -30kW when decelerating.

As I have discussed previously with the Seal, BYD engineers have decided that it is more efficient to roll and coast with braking to increase regen, rather than the single pedal driving method. It makes it more like a conventional automatic transmission to drive.

I certainly had no problem adapting to “two pedal driving” and in fact it is easier to drive smoothly. Particularly compared to my TM3 where the regen is quite harsh.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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