Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

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#2840309 30-Dec-2021 09:21

@frankv I have mentioned that in a previous life a few years back I sold CNG refuelling stations to service stations (Motorspecs/Repco) the refuelling process for hydrogen is very similar although less pressure is involved. The time on the forecourt would be similar. This gives a similar experience to that of refuelling an ICE vehicle.
Also with Hydrogen the same retail infrastructure can be used without reinventing the wheel. This sort of turn around would be very appealing to those who don’t wish to hang around for 39 minutes several times on a trip. Would also reduce fleet down time.

MikeB4

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#2840310 30-Dec-2021 09:25

@RobDickinson here is a tip for you, try posting without the aggression and insults thus avoiding Wheatons law.

MikeB4

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#2840312 30-Dec-2021 09:27

The production of batteries will not be sustainable and on a mass transport scenario a nightmare solution. The required electricity production in going to impact heavily on the environment especially in those nations that don’t have clean options.

RobDickinson

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#2840330 30-Dec-2021 10:08

MikeB4: @RobDickinson here is a tip for you, try posting without the aggression and insults thus avoiding Wheatons law.

Who did I insult?

RobDickinson

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#2840331 30-Dec-2021 10:09

MikeB4: The production of batteries will not be sustainable and on a mass transport scenario a nightmare solution. The required electricity production in going to impact heavily on the environment especially in those nations that don’t have clean options.

You keep stating this yet offer no evidence to support your position.

And we need energy production regardless of which method we implement, bevs use 3-4 times less energy than hydrogen.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2840404 30-Dec-2021 11:35

MikeB4: The production of batteries will not be sustainable and on a mass transport scenario a nightmare solution. The required electricity production in going to impact heavily on the environment especially in those nations that don’t have clean options.

And where, precisely, do you think the electricity to produce the hydrogen is going to come from then? Considering it takes 3x as much generated electricity to move a FCEV vehicle 100km as it does a BEV.

Hydrogen vehicles are a greenwash scam developed by the fossil fuel industry to be always a decade away. They're simply not economical or efficient for their proposed purposes.

MikeB4

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#2840409 30-Dec-2021 11:44

I will turn that around, where is the electricity to charge BEVs going to come from ?

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Obraik

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#2840415 30-Dec-2021 11:49

MikeB4: I will turn that around, where is the electricity to charge BEVs going to come from ?

Any one of these consented power stations. Or from the rooves of car owners.

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MikeB4

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#2840417 30-Dec-2021 11:55

We have solar panels on our caravan. At best it will charge the accessories battery.

Obraik

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#2840420 30-Dec-2021 12:06

Rikkitic:

This thread makes me think of chickens going around in circles as they peck aimlessly at the ground. Some here just really do not like the idea of hydrogen cars for some reason. Some seem to take particular delight in any failures of such.

I don't know if hydrogen vehicles will ever become viable. But the cackling over their shortcomings is myopic and misplaced. Technology advances through its failures. In the early days of automobiles, various means of propulsion were tried out, including electricity and even steam. We are engaged in a similar process now. Whether hydrogen makes it as a fuel for small vehicles or not, the current experiments are valuable and I applaud the man with the vision and courage to buy a hydrogen vehicle at this time. He should be celebrated, not ridiculed. There should be more like him.

No, many of us are arguing against hydrogen vehicles because it's a convenient excuse for why some aren't making the switch to a zero emissions vehicle with climate change bearing down on us. Hydrogen is a great technology to put their switch condition on because "as soon as Hydrogen vehicles and its infrastructure arrives, I'll get rid of my ICE", knowing full well that it's never happening. Entertaining the idea that hydrogen vehicles will be a thing when it's blatantly clear that with all these vehicle manufacturers cancelling their hydrogen plans is unhelpful to reducing our vehicle emissions. We have a a zero emissions solution now that satisfies the vast majority of needs a person has for a vehicle, make the switch now.

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Obraik

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#2840421 30-Dec-2021 12:08

MikeB4: We have solar panels on our caravan. At best it will charge the accessories battery.

Lol, so because your very small solar panel configuration on your caravan doesn't produce enough power there's no way solar could work? Well I guess all those people that have put solar on their roof and essentially run off the grid are imagining things.

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MikeB4

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#2840423 30-Dec-2021 12:20

What size panel would you propose for a car roof in order to charge the motive batteries?

MikeB4

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#2840425 30-Dec-2021 12:22

Capitalism does not produce the best for planet it produces the best path to maximise profit.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2840426 30-Dec-2021 12:23

We're not suggesting putting panels on car roofs. We're suggesting putting them on car owners' (houses) roofs.

That said, there are questions there regarding time of generation vs time of use. I would prefer to see a large-scale build-out on supermarkets, malls etc, as they tend to have a very large roof footprint, and demand (AC, fridges, lighting) that quite closely tracks sunlight.

Obraik

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#2840428 30-Dec-2021 12:35

MikeB4: Capitalism does not produce the best for planet it produces the best path to maximise profit.

Well, isn't it fortunate that hydrogen isn't the winning power source then? Hydrogen allows the oil companies to continue their same capitalist way of doing business that they have with petrol and diesel. With hydrogen, everyone has to go to a fuelling station, everyone is held to whatever price the fuel station company wants to charge, everyone is given a 10c off voucher when they buy their groceries because "we care", everyone is subjected to the "buy 2 Vs and get a mars bar" promo at the fuel stations. And the majority of hydrogen they get to charge for is a by-product of oil refining/natural gas extraction.

EVs on the other hand give more power to the consumer. You don't have to go to a public charging station to charge your car, you can do it at home. You don't have to be held to whatever the power company wants to charge you for power, you can set up your own solar array and charge your car with your own power. Heck, if you've got a stream running through your property you can even take an old F&P washing machine and make your own power.

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