The Decline of Diesel.....Ongoing.

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#2044062 26-Jun-2018 12:53

networkn:

I can't see the point of Hybrid. Two Engines, two fuel types.. I believe companies should be focusing on decent range electric only cars if that's the future.

So true. And the energy in that hybrid car's battery started out as petrol in the tank, less all the various conversion losses and all the efficiency drawbacks of carrying around the extra weight of batteries and electric motors.

Hybrid is a waste of time - get a PEV or a PHEV if you want the get-home insurance of the petrol tank.

kryptonjohn

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#2044064 26-Jun-2018 12:54

Beccara:

Don't modern diesel's cause mega $$$ worth of damage if water so much as looks at the fuel funny?

Yep, or if you accidentally fill the tank with petrol. Either way you're likely to need a new high pressure fuel pump at $4-5k.

kryptonjohn

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#2044066 26-Jun-2018 12:57

Linuxluver:

Batman: It will decline until a major dependent city is struck by natural disaster and the only remaining turbo diesel SUV makes it out alive thanks to the extra hundred gallons of diesel it manages to scavenge.

Nah. Widely distributed solar power is MUCH more resistant to disaster than having to truck liquid fuel around on broken roads.

In 15 years trucks will be able to plug into anything that can make power - solar or wind - and they can be helicoptered in if necessary and make power ever after.

A solar plant to power one single small truck maybe? But not a town's worth of trucks. Plus Batman's point was that if you have a tank of diesel you can get out of where you are and go somewhere that is not a disaster area.

kryptonjohn

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#2044068 26-Jun-2018 13:00

MikeB4:

It will be great to get rid of all those poison spewing diesels travelling around our cities that never get above 100kmh for anywhere near to clean themselves. Those things are as big a health risk as smoking if not greater.

Modern diesels have DPF filters and EGR so they poison themselves rather than the air. My 2 tonne diesel SUV runs way cleaner than most of the cloud spewing petrol powered jalopies you see driving around NZ. And it will go 1000km on a tank.

kryptonjohn

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#2044070 26-Jun-2018 13:03

allan:

Linuxluver:

Batman: It will decline until a major dependent city is struck by natural disaster and the only remaining turbo diesel SUV makes it out alive thanks to the extra hundred gallons of diesel it manages to scavenge.

Nah. Widely distributed solar power is MUCH more resistant to disaster than having to truck liquid fuel around on broken roads.

In 15 years trucks will be able to plug into anything that can make power - solar or wind - and they can be helicoptered in if necessary and make power ever after.

One thing I noticed on a recent trip to Europe, is that solar farms are all over the place - spotted heaps in Belgium, France, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy

As a supply of electricity it's unreliable, heavily subsidised and expensive though.

MikeB4

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#2044075 26-Jun-2018 13:10

kryptonjohn:

MikeB4:

It will be great to get rid of all those poison spewing diesels travelling around our cities that never get above 100kmh for anywhere near to clean themselves. Those things are as big a health risk as smoking if not greater.

Modern diesels have DPF filters and EGR so they poison themselves rather than the air. My 2 tonne diesel SUV runs way cleaner than most of the cloud spewing petrol powered jalopies you see driving around NZ. And it will go 1000km on a tank.

To reach the temperatures to burn off the particulates gathered and to be cleaned a diesel engine needs to be run at 100kmh for around 60 minutes. Many of the cars that are being sold in cities never achieve that.

Coil

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#2044086 26-Jun-2018 13:29

MikeB4:

kryptonjohn:

MikeB4:

It will be great to get rid of all those poison spewing diesels travelling around our cities that never get above 100kmh for anywhere near to clean themselves. Those things are as big a health risk as smoking if not greater.

Modern diesels have DPF filters and EGR so they poison themselves rather than the air. My 2 tonne diesel SUV runs way cleaner than most of the cloud spewing petrol powered jalopies you see driving around NZ. And it will go 1000km on a tank.

To reach the temperatures to burn off the particulates gathered and to be cleaned a diesel engine needs to be run at 100kmh for around 60 minutes. Many of the cars that are being sold in cities never achieve that.

I never knew a speed traveled equated to EGT on a diesel... Pro tip. It does not.

These modern diesels can control their EGT regardless of RPM when unloaded to specifically clean the DPF.

Go run your finger around the inside of the exhaust pipe on a modern Audi or Merc diesel. You won't get any form of soot or oil on your finger. Try that with my 1999 BMW or any petrol for that matter and you will have a black finger. Pretty flawed reasoning as what kills you is what you cannot see but theya re a LOT cleaner than 10 years ago.

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kryptonjohn

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#2044090 26-Jun-2018 13:31

MikeB4:

kryptonjohn:

MikeB4:

It will be great to get rid of all those poison spewing diesels travelling around our cities that never get above 100kmh for anywhere near to clean themselves. Those things are as big a health risk as smoking if not greater.

Modern diesels have DPF filters and EGR so they poison themselves rather than the air. My 2 tonne diesel SUV runs way cleaner than most of the cloud spewing petrol powered jalopies you see driving around NZ. And it will go 1000km on a tank.

To reach the temperatures to burn off the particulates gathered and to be cleaned a diesel engine needs to be run at 100kmh for around 60 minutes. Many of the cars that are being sold in cities never achieve that.

Yeah good point the engine needs to be at operating temperature to be efficient. But for DPF it's the self cleaning regeneration that is affected. It should still filter out the soot regardless of whether the engine has warmed up. I think there are issues with EGR's sooting up at low temps but unless it's actually blocked there's still combustion in the cylinders so should be able to 'burn' the NOx. Where's @coil when you need him!

60 minutes sounds a bit high through. On my car the temp reaches normal and the thermostats open up to hold the temperature in check after about 15min of city commute (by which time I'm most of the way there).

kryptonjohn

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#2044091 26-Jun-2018 13:32

kryptonjohn:

Where's @coil when you need him!

LOL he beat me to it!

Coil

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#2044095 26-Jun-2018 13:36

kryptonjohn:

MikeB4:

kryptonjohn:

MikeB4:

It will be great to get rid of all those poison spewing diesels travelling around our cities that never get above 100kmh for anywhere near to clean themselves. Those things are as big a health risk as smoking if not greater.

Modern diesels have DPF filters and EGR so they poison themselves rather than the air. My 2 tonne diesel SUV runs way cleaner than most of the cloud spewing petrol powered jalopies you see driving around NZ. And it will go 1000km on a tank.

To reach the temperatures to burn off the particulates gathered and to be cleaned a diesel engine needs to be run at 100kmh for around 60 minutes. Many of the cars that are being sold in cities never achieve that.

Yeah good point the engine needs to be at operating temperature to be efficient. But for DPF it's the self cleaning regeneration that is affected. It should still filter out the soot regardless of whether the engine has warmed up. I think there are issues with EGR's sooting up at low temps but unless it's actually blocked there's still combustion in the cylinders so should be able to 'burn' the NOx. Where's @coil when you need him!

60 minutes sounds a bit high through. On my car the temp reaches normal and the thermostats open up to hold the temperature in check after about 15min of city commute (by which time I'm most of the way there).

Above ya ;)

https://youtu.be/aMKpo74P6SE?t=2m1s

A little educational video for some:)
This Aussie bloke says "Particular Filter" which grinds my gears.

MikeB4

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#2044126 26-Jun-2018 14:25

In order for the DPF to incinerate the carbon nano particles it has to achieve high temperature and the vehicle needs to be driven in a set of circumstances to allow all this to happen. That at speeds normally associated with highway speeds for a sustained period of time of around 60 minutes. The vehicle has to achieve this at sustained driving style where the vehicle is free flowing in top gear. The DPF will not incinerate the carbon nano particles unless this set of circumstances are achieved. This also need to occur at a regular cycle of around every 400 kilometers of driving time. If this is not done the DPF becomes blocked and will need to be replaced and this is not cheap,but worse than that the vehicle will increasingly belch gases ate particulates that are very toxic to humans. Therefore this is why diesels cars and cities just do not go together.

Of course I maybe wrong as I am going from memory of what my late father told me quite a few years back. He was an auto engineer.

Batman

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#2044128 26-Jun-2018 14:32

Maybe they need to re-program the ECU to service the DPF in city driving conditions!

ObidiahSlope

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#2044148 26-Jun-2018 15:06

Some bloke on the internet said if you have a blocked DPF(Diesel Particle Filter) you should find a diesel specialist and ask if he can unblock the filter with solvents.

This is cheaper than a complete filter replacement which is probably what you will be offered by the service department of the car dealership.

Obsequious hypocrite

kryptonjohn

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#2044153 26-Jun-2018 15:09

MikeB4:

In order for the DPF to incinerate the carbon nano particles it has to achieve high temperature and the vehicle needs to be driven in a set of circumstances to allow all this to happen. That at speeds normally associated with highway speeds for a sustained period of time of around 60 minutes. The vehicle has to achieve this at sustained driving style where the vehicle is free flowing in top gear. The DPF will not incinerate the carbon nano particles unless this set of circumstances are achieved. This also need to occur at a regular cycle of around every 400 kilometers of driving time. If this is not done the DPF becomes blocked and will need to be replaced and this is not cheap,but worse than that the vehicle will increasingly belch gases ate particulates that are very toxic to humans. Therefore this is why diesels cars and cities just do not go together.

Of course I maybe wrong as I am going from memory of what my late father told me quite a few years back. He was an auto engineer.

I believe this is for "DPF Regeneration" - or self cleaning. It's not for the actual filtering of particulates in the exhaust. So the DPF filter will clog unless it gets this long, hot burn periodically. Clogged DPF means you get an engine fault and limp mode and go into the workshop for a reasonably expensive DPF service or replacement.

http://www.jlmlubricants.com/en/how-diesel-particulate-filters-work

MikeB4

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#2044161 26-Jun-2018 15:20

kryptonjohn:

MikeB4:

In order for the DPF to incinerate the carbon nano particles it has to achieve high temperature and the vehicle needs to be driven in a set of circumstances to allow all this to happen. That at speeds normally associated with highway speeds for a sustained period of time of around 60 minutes. The vehicle has to achieve this at sustained driving style where the vehicle is free flowing in top gear. The DPF will not incinerate the carbon nano particles unless this set of circumstances are achieved. This also need to occur at a regular cycle of around every 400 kilometers of driving time. If this is not done the DPF becomes blocked and will need to be replaced and this is not cheap,but worse than that the vehicle will increasingly belch gases ate particulates that are very toxic to humans. Therefore this is why diesels cars and cities just do not go together.

Of course I maybe wrong as I am going from memory of what my late father told me quite a few years back. He was an auto engineer.

I believe this is for "DPF Regeneration" - or self cleaning. It's not for the actual filtering of particulates in the exhaust. So the DPF filter will clog unless it gets this long, hot burn periodically. Clogged DPF means you get an engine fault and limp mode and go into the workshop for a reasonably expensive DPF service or replacement.

http://www.jlmlubricants.com/en/how-diesel-particulate-filters-work

You are right re the DPF, as I said I am dragging from deep in the memory banks. My father told me when I was looking a diesel that I would need to do this stuff to keep the engine not only running but running efficiently, after considering my needs he told me to buy petrol vehicles. I doubt if the dealers advise buyers about this and I believe that it is very negligent to sell city only drivers diesel vehicles. They flog them off then when the car limps in they say well you are not driving it correctly and happily charge them a bundle to fix it.

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