Tow ball down weight

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13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2670335 9-Mar-2021 07:27

Locally shot dashcam footage of a tail-heavy trailer. This could have easily caused a multiple fatality accident.

I don't believe that the very low maximum tongue load rating for the Tiguan is because of the DSG or the structural attachment of the bar to the car body, they're lightweight cars, if you put 250kg tongue weight on them, the front suspension would be raised like a see-saw, hit a slippery/wet bit of road on a corner and you'll go straight ahead, ESC won't help you.

In the USA, the Tiguan is sold with a 2,200lb (1,000kg) tow rating.

Handle9

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#2670339 9-Mar-2021 07:40

Fred99:
Locally shot dashcam footage of a tail-heavy trailer. This could have easily caused a multiple fatality accident.

I don't believe that the very low maximum tongue load rating for the Tiguan is because of the DSG or the structural attachment of the bar to the car body, they're lightweight cars, if you put 250kg tongue weight on them, the front suspension would be raised like a see-saw, hit a slippery/wet bit of road on a corner and you'll go straight ahead, ESC won't help you.

In the USA, the Tiguan is sold with a 2,200lb (1,000kg) tow rating.

That model of Tiguan is basically an A4 in drag. I wouldn't be in a hurry to tow a boat with an A4.

Bung

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#2670341 9-Mar-2021 07:55

US ratings often have a lot of lawyer input. Our previous car was rated by the manufacturer for 1200kg braked in NZ or Aus but the US market version supposedly could only take a hitch for a bike rack.

Miles Continental have 2 ratings for Tiguan 4wd (without specifying what series) 100kg with 4 people onboard or 200kg with driver and 1 passenger. Using that logic the conservative 65kg figure could just be allowing for 5 in the car or the local bar may not come with the wiring that modifies the ESC when the trailer is attached

MikeB4

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#2670416 9-Mar-2021 10:55

@Handle9 John Cadogan knows his stuff but he is so cringe and misogynist his video are just too hard to watch. He has got worse over the last year. I gave up trying to watch.

cunningdavid

78 posts

Master Geek

#2670424 9-Mar-2021 11:26

Thanks very much everyone, so much good information and informative videos. I'm certainly better educated on towing than this time yesterday!

It's pretty clear that the Towbar Express one isn't going to do the job, and I'll need to get it swapped for a 100kg towbar.

I'll also bear in mind the weight distribution on the trailer and keep a majority forward - scary stuff otherwise.

lapimate

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#2670452 9-Mar-2021 13:02

Scott3: ... need to have a decent amount of weight on the nose for stability...

An example: Unbraked towing capacity 750kg "The tongue weight must not be below 50kg" "Use a tongue weight as close as possible to the maximum permissible tongue weight." Maximum tongue weight 80kg.

cunningdavid

78 posts

Master Geek

#2670453 9-Mar-2021 13:04

MikeB4:

@Handle9 John Cadogan knows his stuff but he is so cringe and misogynist his video are just too hard to watch. He has got worse over the last year. I gave up trying to watch.

He is trying hard to be a "real Aussie bloke"!

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Bung

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#2670479 9-Mar-2021 14:28

cunningdavid:
It's pretty clear that the Towbar Express one isn't going to do the job, and I'll need to get it swapped for a 100kg towbar.

Unless the Towbar Express bar is obviously lightweight* I doubt that you would notice any difference in the steel work or the mounting it would just have different numbers on the sticker. AFAIK the certification is only required for vehicles needing a COF.

*Towbar Express may make 2 standards of bar. "Towbars are manufactured to comply with the vehicle manufacturer’s rating specifications. Towbars are also available where needed for only light trailer use."

cunningdavid

78 posts

Master Geek

#2670494 9-Mar-2021 14:51

Towbar Express are pretty clear that 65kg is the maximum they can do, and it matches what the towbar manufacturer says:

https://www.towbar.co.nz/vehicles/car/1066

I think it's clear that these are lightweight towbars, and although heavier towbars are available Towbar Express just don't do them. Pity they didn't mention that back when we first ordered it.

Handle9

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#2670573 9-Mar-2021 18:18

MikeB4:

@Handle9 John Cadogan knows his stuff but he is so cringe and misogynist his video are just too hard to watch. He has got worse over the last year. I gave up trying to watch.

OK I guess.

mudguard

2119 posts

Uber Geek

#2670591 9-Mar-2021 19:03

Bung: US ratings often have a lot of lawyer input. Our previous car was rated by the manufacturer for 1200kg braked in NZ or Aus but the US market version supposedly could only take a hitch for a bike rack.

Miles Continental have 2 ratings for Tiguan 4wd (without specifying what series) 100kg with 4 people onboard or 200kg with driver and 1 passenger. Using that logic the conservative 65kg figure could just be allowing for 5 in the car or the local bar may not come with the wiring that modifies the ESC when the trailer is attached

I think the Tiguans have quite different ratings between the 2WD, 4WD and diesel. I looked awhile back for a friend who tows quite a heavy boat.

Scott3

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#2670786 10-Mar-2021 00:22

cunningdavid:

Thanks very much everyone, so much good information and informative videos. I'm certainly better educated on towing than this time yesterday!

It's pretty clear that the Towbar Express one isn't going to do the job, and I'll need to get it swapped for a 100kg towbar.

I'll also bear in mind the weight distribution on the trailer and keep a majority forward - scary stuff otherwise.

As you would have seen from the video's, towing heavy stuff needs to be treated with respect.

That said, your situation with a boat (I assume a powerboat) on it's own custom trailer is one of the of the better situation's:

once they have be setup with correct weight balance it is actually pretty hard to mess them up. The boat is the same every time, and if you haven't winched it all the way on, the cut to length safety chain won't go on, so you will know
Powerboats due to their weight distribution Tend to have the axles a good way back along the boat. The relatively long axle to drawbar length, repetitive to tail overhang is good for stability.
The interior configuration makes it likely that any cargo onboard is unlikely to mess up the center of gravity too much. Chilly bin's etc in the rear of the boat arn't likely to be much more than one meter to the rear of the axle(s) - Comare to a caravan where hanging bikes on the rear, 3+ meters behind the axle is tempting. Also If a cabin boat, a decent chunk of stuff ends up hear anyway as it is a safe dry space.

Things to be really careful with:

Putting your boat on somebody else's trailer (or a different boat on your trailer) - Nose weight needs to be re-checked.
Large amount of water in your bilge. If you boat layout means that the bilge is not viable (i.e. under lids etc), you might consider a visual cheek, running checking with the bilge pump, or pulling the bung when towing, to avoid the risk of 500L or so or water sloshing around unknown to you. (Obviously need a system to ensure the bung goes in before launching)
U bolt style winch post moving rearwards. If you notice this it needs to be resolved. - The old location will be viable on most weathered galv trailers, but could be marked if not.
Excess speed. NZ limit for towing is 90km/h. Don't go passing people at 130km/h with the trailer on...

I have a family member that tows a 1800kg boat with 85kg nose-wight behind a CX-5. No issue's with 4.7% nosewight.

cunningdavid

78 posts

Master Geek

#2671019 10-Mar-2021 12:07

It is a power boat, and although the motor and battery on the back would be quite heavy, the axles are pretty far back too hence the 10% noseweight overall.

Thanks for that. I had no idea there was a separate speed limit for cars towing!

cunningdavid

78 posts

Master Geek

#2671074 10-Mar-2021 14:11

Thinking that instead of replacing the towbar we might replace the car...

Had been thinking of changing to a Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-in Hybrid next year, but we could bring it forward to this year instead. Called the local dealer and the limits are 750kg and 75g tongue weight unbraked, or 1500kg and 10% of the trailer weight in tongue weight braked (so up to 150kg). Sounds pretty well suitable.

Scott3

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#2671359 10-Mar-2021 22:39

cunningdavid:

It is a power boat, and although the motor and battery on the back would be quite heavy, the axles are pretty far back too hence the 10% noseweight overall.

Thanks for that. I had no idea there was a separate speed limit for cars towing!

Cheers.

Note that most of my advise relates to open road speed stuff. If you are just towing down to the ramp at under 60km/h, I wouldn't have any concerns about moving the boat back on the trailer so nose-wight meet's your current towbar's 65kg rating and going for it.

Also in NZ it is fairly common to set boat trailers up with less than 10% down-force. Many cars stock suspension will sag excessively with 150 - 200kg on the towball, even if they are rated to carry that load.

cunningdavid:

Thinking that instead of replacing the towbar we might replace the car...

Had been thinking of changing to a Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-in Hybrid next year, but we could bring it forward to this year instead. Called the local dealer and the limits are 750kg and 75g tongue weight unbraked, or 1500kg and 10% of the trailer weight in tongue weight braked (so up to 150kg). Sounds pretty well suitable.

I recommend taking your boat across a weighbridge at some point if you are going car shopping. NZ boat makers have a habit often advertise their boats as having ligher towing weights than are realistic. That 1800kg boat mentioned prior was advertised as being 1450kg approx tow weight (but does have heavy option such as the max horsepower outboard, dual battery, anchor winch, tandem axle trailer etc.).

Not strictly required by law to follow manufacturer towing limits, but a good idea if buying a car for that purpose.

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