Tragic loss of life in Timaru.

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Tragic loss of life in Timaru.

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Geek @ Coastguard NZ
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#2757742 10-Aug-2021 10:19

Regardless what restrictions you put in place legally, there will always be some who ignore them unfortunately.

Almost everyone at my school got their Learners and were breaking the rules from day one by driving by themselves all times of day and night, have friends in the car and so on....... very few got stopped and reprimanded over it.

My eldest can sit her learners in 2 years, and I will be encouraging her to keep to the rules - I'm not going to enforce it as that's more likely to end up with her doing stupid things in retaliation of me going "No".

Hopefully she'll see that by sticking to the rules, she can get her full license sooner and be able to take mates out safely and enjoy it.

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Fred99

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#2757912 10-Aug-2021 12:31

But wait - there's more:

Just days after a fatal crash that claimed the lives of five teenagers, police were called to another crash involving an overloaded car and a person in the boot.

The crash happened when the teenage driver of a Mazda Atenza failed to give way when turning into Hillside Rd, Dunedin, about 7pm on Monday, Senior Sergeant Craig Dinnissen said.

The driver, who was on a restricted licence, had six passengers in the car, including one in the boot, he said.

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#2757937 10-Aug-2021 12:54

xpd: My eldest can sit her learners in 2 years, and I will be encouraging her to keep to the rules - I'm not going to enforce it as that's more likely to end up with her doing stupid things in retaliation of me going "No".

Hopefully she'll see that by sticking to the rules, she can get her full license sooner and be able to take mates out safely and enjoy it.

Wow if I had any doubts I would get mine to sign a contract including consequences of breaking the rules. Your insurance company ain't gonna come to the party if they cause a million dollars in damage and you could be bankrupted.

Technofreak

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#2757967 10-Aug-2021 13:50

networkn:

The father of one of the kids, said his kid had never done anything like that, or shown inclination to get into a car where that behaviour might have been common. As the father of two kids who are pretty sensible and rule abiding, it scares the living crap out of me, that one of them might make an out of character decision to get in a car with someone or god forbid, be the driver in something like this.

There is a lifetime of misery facing many people after this weekend.

Yes, for sure a lifetime of misery from a few minutes of gung-ho stupidity.

About the best thing that can come from this for most of us is to use it as a very good example at to why it's a very good idea not to avail yourself of any opportunities to get involved in something like this. We're all young once and most of us have done some stupid things and mostly got away scot free. Events like this are a wake up call which hopefully stop others from doing the same thing and suffering life long consequences.

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#2757971 10-Aug-2021 13:55

Technofreak:

Yes, for sure a lifetime of misery from a few minutes of gung-ho stupidity.

About the best thing that can come from this for most of us is to use it as a very good example at to why it's a very good idea not to avail yourself of any opportunities to get involved in something like this. We're all young once and most of us have done some stupid things and mostly got away scot free. Events like this are a wake up call which hopefully stop others from doing the same thing and suffering life long consequences.

The thing is, and this is the thing with kids, their ability to measure and assess risk and consequence are often pretty messed up. Even sensible kids make these type of mistakes/bad judgment calls occasionally, the problem is, occasionally can sometimes end in tragedy.

We talk to our kids semi-often about the risks associated with alcohol, drugs, speeding, etc. In reality though, sometimes it's not enough.

I can't bear to think about what those poor poor parents are going through, or that kid who survived who was driving.

1101

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#2757972 10-Aug-2021 13:57

No amount of rules, laws , restrictions will make any real difference .
The cellphone & driving laws didnt stop txting & cellphone use when driving.
50k speed limit doesnt stop idiots doing 150k on that road .

We are talking about a minority & stupid behavior .And its not just kids, its also adults . There are also "professional" drivers doing stupid things

There will allways be deaths on the road. ALLWAYS.
There will always be those doing stupid things in cars . Allways .
Nothing we do will change that.

Fred99

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#2757981 10-Aug-2021 14:24

1101:

No amount of rules, laws , restrictions will make any real difference .
Nothing we do will change that.

I don't agree at all.

Road toll peaked at about 800 35 years ago.

On a per capita basis, the 1987 toll would have been 1250 deaths in 2020 - we had 318.

So it's nonsense to suggest that rules, laws, and restrictions will make no difference when there's very good data to show they've made a huge difference.

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#2757982 10-Aug-2021 14:29

Fred99:

So it's nonsense to suggest that rules, laws, and restrictions will make no difference when there's very good data to show they've made a huge difference.

Well, it's not complete nonsense. Our roads have improved out of sight (They are still terrible in many places) , our signage, and road safety measures like better cateyes, barriers are all contributing factors, not to mention, safety features on cars are a huge part of it etc.

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#2757993 10-Aug-2021 14:49

networkn:

Fred99:

So it's nonsense to suggest that rules, laws, and restrictions will make no difference when there's very good data to show they've made a huge difference.

Well, it's not complete nonsense. Our roads have improved out of sight (They are still terrible in many places) , our signage, and road safety measures like better cateyes, barriers are all contributing factors, not to mention, safety features on cars are a huge part of it etc.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not. While some safety features on cars used to be optional or unavailable, they've been gradually made mandatory (by rules, laws and restrictions) on new and used import cars as they've become more available. There's a delay as old cars are retired from the fleet (average age ~10 years in NZ).

As an ex motorcyclist, I'm not sure if I agree that roads have improved out of sight - sure the things you mention, but traffic density has also increased hugely on the open road - where most deaths occur. People have slowed down though. I haven't heard car drivers boasting (as was common a few decades ago) about some record time they did Dunedin to Chch or Akl to Wgtn, being a dick on the road seems to have become more socially unacceptable to most people. But not with some groups - including the ones who make headlines like the one that started this thread.

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#2757997 10-Aug-2021 14:57

Cars are a lot safer now than they used to be.

But this was a massive smash sideways into a pole at 120-130kph? Not sure even the best modern cars would help there.

networkn

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#2757999 10-Aug-2021 14:59

RobDickinson:

Cars are a lot safer now than they used to be.

But this was a massive smash sideways into a pole at 120-130kph? Not sure even the best modern cars would help there.

It wasn't a particularly modern car, and comparing the same accident with newer cars with newer technology, you are almost always better off in a newer car. Cabin passenger protection in general is superior.

There will be some exceptions.

Having said that 130-0 is a pretty big stop, and odds are reasonably high, not everyone was secured in their seat.

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#2758000 10-Aug-2021 15:00

Rules and law updates etc make a difference to the (number pulled out of behind) 90% of the population who are generally law abiding. The remainder who flagrantly disregard any rules as not applicable to them, no difference will be noticed.

Couple that with an overall attitude of "it won't happen to me" and "I'm a better than average driver" and too many people end up in situations they don't have the skills, ability or physics to get out of.

Many roads in NZ will very severely punish the unwary, unskilled or complacent drivers. When you are piloting up to 2 ton of metal missile, physics has one or two things to say about conservation of energy when it comes to sudden stops or direction changes. Unfortunately, learning experiences for new drivers tend to end up being rather sudden and potentially terminal but our driver licensing system is not a driver education system so they are pushed out on the roads without being fully able to comprehend the situations they can get into.

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RobDickinson

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#2758003 10-Aug-2021 15:04

networkn:

RobDickinson:

Cars are a lot safer now than they used to be.

But this was a massive smash sideways into a pole at 120-130kph? Not sure even the best modern cars would help there.

It wasn't a particularly modern car, and comparing the same accident with newer cars with newer technology, you are almost always better off in a newer car. Cabin passenger protection in general is superior.

There will be some exceptions.

Having said that 130-0 is a pretty big stop, and odds are reasonably high, not everyone was secured in their seat.

yeah it was an older 1 star car, I've seen reports of people walking away from a similar 100mph crash in a model in usa but that was just the driver and the car was an absolute mess, as much luck as engineering.

https://insideevs.com/news/455369/stoned-driver-tesla-model-3-crash-oregon/

Fred99

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#2758032 10-Aug-2021 15:29

RobDickinson:

Cars are a lot safer now than they used to be.

But this was a massive smash sideways into a pole at 120-130kph? Not sure even the best modern cars would help there.

ESC may have helped prevent it. Too early to say though, overloaded, old shocks, worn suspension, poorly maintained brakes, crappy tyres, who knows?

If you google map streetview the location, the road is covered in skidmarks from boy racers. The poles are on both sides of the road, and big heavy high voltage lines, the verges/shoulders not very well formed, sloping down away from the road, put a wheel there at high speed and you're going to be in very deep trouble in any car.

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#2758048 10-Aug-2021 16:04

RobDickinson:

I've seen reports of people walking away from a similar 100mph crash in a model in usa but that was just the driver and the car was an absolute mess, as much luck as engineering.

https://insideevs.com/news/455369/stoned-driver-tesla-model-3-crash-oregon/

depends on a few things. Paul Walker comes to mind

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