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Fred99
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  #2778308 14-Sep-2021 16:04
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By coincidence the CEL came on in 2008 Suzuki here.  Code P0420, catalyst system efficiency.  This could be pre-cat sensor, or post cat 02 sensor, or the catalytic converter.

 

I reset it and it stayed off for a month or so, but it popped on again yesterday.

 

The scanner I have does see real time data from the sensors and can produce charts.  If either of the sensors had a faulty element, that should have generated a separate code. So at this stage, no need to get my hands dirty.
I reset the check engine light and got the car up to normal temp.  The pre-cat sensor seems to be operating to spec, nice near sine wave pulses within 150-850 mV range.  The post cat sensor signal is fluctuating all over the place and I'm pretty sure it should be reasonably steady approx 600mV.  That's generic - not Suzuki specific.  If the waveform was closely following the pre-cat signal, then I think that's a catalytic converter fault (ie - it's not working). And it shouldn't be a catalytic converter failure as it's a NZ new vehicle with only moderate km. unless some idiot ran avgas in it or whatever.  So I *think* it's indeed a faulty post cat O2 sensor, and I *guess* that the fault code is generated when the fluctuations happen to randomly line up with the waveform from the pre-cat sensor - for long enough so the ecu decides the cat isn't working.  Possibly why you can drive around for weeks or months and the check engine light doesn't come on - except occasionally and randomly.  Anyway I also *think* that the post cat sensor doesn't actually do anything at all engine management wise - it's only there to monitor whether the catalytic converter is working for emissions control monitoring reasons.  If the pre-cat sensor was dodgy, then that could be more of a problem (running too rich or lean).

 

So after doing that, I'm really none the wiser, and google seems to be telling me that this is a reasonably common issue, and that owners report not great luck or confidence with franchise workshops diagnosing the issue, but end up doing the old parts swappathon at customers expense (great expense if they decide the cat needs replacing).  A new OEM post-cat O2 sensor is $190.

 

So, my solution for now is to do nothing at all, it's running fine whether or not the check engine light is on - which only takes about two minutes to reset/clear.  I'm not paying $190 for a replacement sensor without being 100% sure, but if it keeps triggering the code, I might try bypassing the post cat signal and feeding the ECU the 0.6v signal I think it expects, then see what happens.

 

 




Batman

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  #2778315 14-Sep-2021 16:13
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how can i get my scanner to see the voltages of the sensors?

 

which app do you use?

 

(anyway with a bit of detective work i have pinpointed where this o2 sensor is. it's buried deep inside the engine bay under the passenger compartment dash and it's about 3 hrs labour by pro, 6 hrs by amateur to do a replacement. it should have been replaced when i did the spark plugs as it's right there but i wasn't adviced. 

 

as others have said may or may not be the sensor, though it probably needs attention as it's got 206,000ks on it. spark plugs were done at 155ks when i bought as scrap metal)


duckDecoy
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  #2778323 14-Sep-2021 16:28
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k1w1k1d:

 

My work supplied Toyota Avensis pops up O2 sensor errors when it feels like it. I just clear the code and carry on. It has been doing it for a few years without any drivability issues.

 

Toyota dealer that services it says it is a common fault with them.

 

 

What do you use to clear the code?  Mine is the same and I'd like to clear it rather than have the engine light on.   Any links to what to buy would be appreciated.




Oblivian
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  #2778333 14-Sep-2021 16:46
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Does it pinpoint down to which one is the culprit. Or just in general.

 

I had a MAF/airbox sensor fault out. Still part of the overall air sensoring array. But was the mass air flow behind the filter part way down the intake hose.

 

Turns out all the dust and crap can build up on them (in the mazdas case they appear electrically charged and basically heat up like a small wire element) and cause it fault our or re-tard the mixture from bad readings.

 

Got some sensor cleaner, gave it a few doses after some runs. And voila, mixture and therefore economy improved.

 

 

 

I've run Torque (lite) and obd auto doctor. Think the gotcha with Clearing is it may put it back to defaults or ECU-learn, and trigger soon after if the readings are still skewed/out of bounds.


Fred99
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  #2778338 14-Sep-2021 17:01
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I just grabbed a Kincrome K8411 from supercheap - was about $150 on special. Didn't research anything, just trusted the guy at the parts counter advice that it was okay / should do the trick.  It will not work with (most or all?) Japanese imports.  There's a list of supported vehicles on Kincrome's website.  The particular Suzuki model I was working on not listed as supported, but it worked anyway.  Also seems to work fine on my 2016 D-max to access both ECU and TCU, despite that not being listed as supported either (Holden Colorado is - maybe the ECU etc is close enough to the same despite having neither the same engine or transmission).

 

"Semi Pro" is a bit of a joke, pro's seem to have diagnostic tools including OEM that cost many $thousands and they will laugh at your toy scanner, but it does the trick for reading and clearing codes and seems to be reliable and easy to use.


Fred99
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  #2778348 14-Sep-2021 17:22
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Oblivian:

 

Does it pinpoint down to which one is the culprit. Or just in general.

 

 

I guess with a "hot wire" MAF sensor it would read the signal voltage, you'd need then to compare reading with the specs, probably give you a pretty good idea if the wire / throttle body needed a good clean before you ripped in to cleaning it.  

 

For the pre and post cat sensors, then a fault with either may trigger the same fault code, but you should be able to check signal from each sensor individually.  Understanding what it means is another thing, as per my guesses re the suzuki in the post above.

 

Hence consulting a good mechanic with model specific experience may be the best bet before ripping in to any expensive part swapping exercise based on what some scan tool tells you.


jonherries
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  #2778445 14-Sep-2021 20:11
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Sorry @Batman, I am not sure many of us are qualified to help answer how important O2 sensors are on the Batmobile… Maybe Wayne Enterprises could help - they are in Gotham City.


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