Lets Get Welly Moving releases its options for Wellington Transport

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Lets Get Welly Moving releases its options for Wellington Transport

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#2805722 1-Nov-2021 20:27

MikeB4:

I am not anti car. I believe that we need to use them better.

That at least we can somewhat agree on. I am opposed to a a blanket car free CBD, but I'd have no issues with something like ANPR machinery at every entry point to the CBD and if you travel into the CBD during rush hour more than say twice a week, you cop a $50/week tax or something. Carrot and stick to try and reduce the number of cars in the CBD to make life easier for those who need to take one for whatever reason. But even for that to work, we still need to remove as many of the roading bottlenecks we have.

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Wellingtondave

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#2805745 1-Nov-2021 21:54

PolicyGuy:

Dingbatt:

The best way to get Wellington moving would be to move as many Government ministries as possible out of the city and disperse them around the country. If the pandemic has shown anything it is that they don’t all need to be in Wellington. Probably be done for less than $6B.

This was called "Regional Development" in the 1970s.
It led to Government Printing Office in Masterton (since sold off), the Motor Vehicle Registration Centre in Palmerston North (still there I think) and the Wanganui* Computer Centre (also sold off). IRD had regional offices which did all the real work in their various regions. I'm sure there were other projects as well.

It brought high-paying technical and managerial jobs to talent-rich but job-poor provincial centres. It was pure politics and loathed by the Public Service Mandarins in Wellington. It was also unpopular with Public Service middle management as it might mean they had to go and live in the sticks for a while as they climbed the management greasy pole.
As soon as the "more Market!", "Private Sector good, Public Sector bad" philosophy took hold, these ventures were doomed because they were seen as relics of a failed political system.

......

So why not have some shared offices where people can potentially afford to live? Do that before the next generation all eff off to greener pastures (they might be, they might not be) and keep people in regional offices. These transportation options aren't taking into consideration the fact that we've just had the greatest kick in the pants to work / remote work and work life balance that many people have seen in their lifetimes.

There's no need for tens of thousands of people (the 'knowledge workers') to pour into the city each day anymore.

Wheelbarrow01

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#2805781 1-Nov-2021 23:06

It's all very interesting. I spent much of my 20's visiting (and at one stage living in) my friend's father's house which my friend has recently inherited. It's in Paterson St adjacent to the entrance to the existing tunnel. NZTA acquired ownership of the land (but not the building) decades ago, and the land has been leased back to the family since then, with no security of tenure.

The house is earmarked for demolition/removal if any new tunnel is to be built on the city side of the existing tunnel. However after the recent passing of his father, my friend has been surprised to find out that the house was listed as a Category 2 historic place in 1994. This is due to it being one of the oldest surviving original cottages in Mt Victoria, built around 1871.

Aside from the fact it cannot be knocked down due to the heritage status, Heritage NZ have made it clear that they would strongly oppose relocation of the house, because the historical value of the house is just as much tied to the physical location as it is to the building itself.

Nobody really knows how this will play out, but I guess it comes down to which of the 4 tunnel options makes the final cut. Either of the 'diagonal' tunnel options through to Wellington Rd would likely save the house, because the diagonal tunnel would have to be built on the Newtown side of the existing tunnel, meaning the land under this house would not be required. I guess time will tell....

sbiddle

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#2805817 2-Nov-2021 07:45

I wonder what sort of increase we'd see in PT usage from people commuting into the CBD if we capped all bus fares at say $2 for travel into the CBD? The amount spent on subsidies to cover this would be a fraction of what other solutions would cost.

With taxis and rideshare to and from the airport making up a fairly significant percentage of the ~1400 vehicles per hour through the Mt Vic tunnel at peak times how many of these vehicle journeys would be removed with $3 express bus journeys from the CBD to and from the airport every 10 mins?

Eva888

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#2805852 2-Nov-2021 08:34

sbiddle:

I wonder what sort of increase we'd see in PT usage from people commuting into the CBD if we capped all bus fares at say $2 for travel into the CBD? The amount spent on subsidies to cover this would be a fraction of what other solutions would cost.

With taxis and rideshare to and from the airport making up a fairly significant percentage of the ~1400 vehicles per hour through the Mt Vic tunnel at peak times how many of these vehicle journeys would be removed with $3 express bus journeys from the CBD to and from the airport every 10 mins?

Absolutely agree. Cost of public transport is prohibitive with section increases added every few kilometres. Wellington could easily have one capped fare to go to and from all suburbs. It’s a small city and this would encourage more people to use busses than with the convoluted section pricing we have now. It’s cheaper to take the car especially from the furthest suburbs.

I really like flyover light rail over roads with cars beneath as they have in Bangkok. You could even have elevated bike lanes running next to the trains to get bikes safely away from cars below.

What I don’t want is years of consultation and argument costing us ratepayers ever more. Rates are already intolerably high.

D1023319

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#2805952 2-Nov-2021 10:25

sbiddle:

I wonder what sort of increase we'd see in PT usage from people commuting into the CBD if we capped all bus fares at say $2 for travel into the CBD? The amount spent on subsidies to cover this would be a fraction of what other solutions would cost.

With taxis and rideshare to and from the airport making up a fairly significant percentage of the ~1400 vehicles per hour through the Mt Vic tunnel at peak times how many of these vehicle journeys would be removed with $3 express bus journeys from the CBD to and from the airport every 10 mins?

Id dispute that taxi's and rideshare to and from airport are a significant percentage of vehicles going through Mt Vic. During these covid times when the airport flights have been limited, theres hardly been a reduction in congestion there. Also theres considerable development planned for Miramar with increased heights, Shelly Bay and the Prison land marked for development - so theres only going to be more non-airport related traffic.

Also - congestion is worse on the weekends when people are not going to the CBD. I dont see the LGWM options are going to address this

TinyTim

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#2806431 2-Nov-2021 22:21

D1023319:

Also - congestion is worse on the weekends when people are not going to the CBD. I dont see the LGWM options are going to address this

Agree - it can take 30 minutes to get from the zephyrometer to the Terrace Tunnel in the weekend, and that congestion lasts the whole day.

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sbiddle

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#2806506 3-Nov-2021 07:23

Now they're proposing a yearly levy of $2500 for every private and public off street carpark in the CBD to help fund LGMW.

MikeB4

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#2806509 3-Nov-2021 07:57

sbiddle:

Now they're proposing a yearly levy of $2500 for every private and public off street carpark in the CBD to help fund LGMW.

Source for this?

MileHighKiwi

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#2806530 3-Nov-2021 08:20

It's always some grand scheme that doesn't pass the bullshit test. Light rail on the south coast, yeah right! We already have houses and roads swamped with debris when there's a good southerly and apparently climate change is going to make it worse, and they want to install light rail there? Doesn't make sense. Not enough people either. These people need to wake up and realise we are not a European city and never will be.

MileHighKiwi

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#2806534 3-Nov-2021 08:22

MikeB4:
sbiddle:

Now they're proposing a yearly levy of $2500 for every private and public off street carpark in the CBD to help fund LGMW.

Source for this?

They're going to kill the cbd. I stopped going in when work removed the car park. I wfh permenently.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/commuter-parking-levy-investigated-for-wellington-of-up-to-2500-per-car-park/3NX6GQNKFOJPNOBBT5OFLWRGJE/

jonherries

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#2806535 3-Nov-2021 08:24

D1023319:
sbiddle:

I wonder what sort of increase we'd see in PT usage from people commuting into the CBD if we capped all bus fares at say $2 for travel into the CBD? The amount spent on subsidies to cover this would be a fraction of what other solutions would cost.

With taxis and rideshare to and from the airport making up a fairly significant percentage of the ~1400 vehicles per hour through the Mt Vic tunnel at peak times how many of these vehicle journeys would be removed with $3 express bus journeys from the CBD to and from the airport every 10 mins?

Id dispute that taxi's and rideshare to and from airport are a significant percentage of vehicles going through Mt Vic. During these covid times when the airport flights have been limited, theres hardly been a reduction in congestion there. Also theres considerable development planned for Miramar with increased heights, Shelly Bay and the Prison land marked for development - so theres only going to be more non-airport related traffic.

Also - congestion is worse on the weekends when people are not going to the CBD. I dont see the LGWM options are going to address this

The second part of this is what annoyed me in the plan. Miramar and Kilbirnie have wide streets highly suited and cheaper (no land acquistion costs) for light rail along with a growing density/population and they have cut the options for us? I really struggle to understand that, given it looks like the plan must be to bulldoze plenty of houses on Adelaide Road - it is very narrow from the Countdown through to The Parade. On the plus side, it might make them fix the bike lane in Island Bay eventually.

Jon

MikeB4

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#2806537 3-Nov-2021 08:41

Remember this plan is not for those on this forum's generations. It is for future generations. Its about creating city living, working, playing environment that our Tamariki and beyond can enjoy. It's about providing transport that is friendly to the environment, enables a cleaner, quiet and safer city for alternative personal transport and pedestrians.

It is not about the selfish status quo and the obsession with the motor vehicle. We have selfishly handed a nightmare future to Aotearoa. Lets not continue to to make the same mistakes that have been repeated over and over for the last one hundred years plus that is why we are in the untenable mess we are in now. We need to plan a future where the motor vehicle becomes a rarity. It has been done in many cities successfully and can be done here. This plan will not kill the CBD it will create a new liveable city that is sustainable.

wellygary

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#2806549 3-Nov-2021 08:59

MikeB4:

sbiddle:

Now they're proposing a yearly levy of $2500 for every private and public off street carpark in the CBD to help fund LGMW.

Source for this?

It here, "Wellington Commuter Parking Levy Feasibility Study. "

https://lgwm-prod-public.s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/public/Documents/Nov-1-MRT/2021-04-12-LGWM-Commuter-Parking-Levy-Final-Report.pdf

Its basically how the WCC could afford its share of the LGWM projects without hiking rates even more....

wellygary

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#2806551 3-Nov-2021 09:03

jonherries:

The second part of this is what annoyed me in the plan. Miramar and Kilbirnie have wide streets highly suited and cheaper (no land acquistion costs) for light rail along with a growing density/population and they have cut the options for us? I really struggle to understand that, given it looks like the plan must be to bulldoze plenty of houses on Adelaide Road - it is very narrow from the Countdown through to The Parade. On the plus side, it might make them fix the bike lane in Island Bay eventually.

Jon

Basically light trail is predicated on scaling up the density of the areas around it,

They have concluded that the Tsunami and light soil ( sandy) earthquake risks will stop any major (6 story) intensification in these areas, so ipso facto their is no need for light rail to service these areas. hence the bus lanes ( or the single option BRT)

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