Hybrid cars, and which ones are available these days

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#2844990 7-Jan-2022 19:01

mattwnz:

There are also different types o f hybrid including plugin ones. The new toyota rav 4 plugin hybrid, which I don't think is going to be sold in NZ, they do a plugin hybrid which you can sole use as an EV if you do short distances.

Mitsubishi also do plug in hybrid versions of the Outlander and Eclipse Cross. They are good if you do frequent short trips and occasional long distance, but if you do frequent long distance then you are dragging around the dead weight of a depleted battery.

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#2844991 7-Jan-2022 19:17

alasta:

Mitsubishi also do plug in hybrid versions of the Outlander and Eclipse Cross. They are good if you do frequent short trips and occasional long distance, but if you do frequent long distance then you are dragging around the dead weight of a depleted battery.

And there have been many reported problems with a reduction in EV-only range due to battery depletion over time, as covered on other threads here on GZ. This alone would be a reason why I'd not touch the Mitsi PHEVs.

quickymart

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#2845013 7-Jan-2022 20:34

Probably a hatchback, I don't think I'd need a sedan.

I would go full electric, but am worried about the range, plus the charging cost, not to mention most of the electrics I've seen (usually a Nissan Leaf) cost a bit.

Thanks again for all the replies so far, very interesting.

gzt

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#2845026 7-Jan-2022 21:23

richms:
gzt: Depends how much you're spending. Other than Toyota, manufacturers only started doing hybrid around 2015. Form factor is another issue. Sedan is easy. Stationwagon choice is very limited. SUV has variety.

Very few sedans in hybrid, most are hatches. If you need a sedan and hybrid you are generally going to be looking at a more luxury thing than a cheapie Toyota unfortunately.

Used market is full of hatches because that's whats most popular in Japan because of their vehicle size taxation thing.

My brain tells me anything with four doors and a good size is a sedan. Sorry about that. Cars like Model Y for example are hatchback I guess even though they are very comfortable.

gzt

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#2845028 7-Jan-2022 21:29

alasta: Mitsubishi also do plug in hybrid versions of the Outlander and Eclipse Cross. They are good if you do frequent short trips and occasional long distance, but if you do frequent long distance then you are dragging around the dead weight of a depleted battery.

Plus the dead weight of the SUV form factor if you don't really need one.

RUKI

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#2845034 7-Jan-2022 21:47

Toyota made much more awesome hybrids.
However the BAD news for New Zealand is:
Transport Authorities prohibit from 1 July 2021 the very latest models (circa 2018+) of Toyota/Lexus to enter New Zealand, because those are equipped with latest safety technology interacting on high frequences not allowed in NZ,
E.g. That smart system in Japan for example will tell you when traffic light will change at the next intersection, or whether the ambulance is nearby and much more.
Authorities would render any imported vehicle equipped with that system as "damaged" so that you will not be able to register it.
They would allow if system is disabled and dismantled in Japan. Which is not currently happening.

Authorities HAVE NOT responded to my official letter and to one local car dealer letter to consider deactivation or at least investigation by our LAB for de-activation of the system in New Zealand before Compliance.

So unless that is resolved some awesome cars won't be coming to New Zealand any time soon. :(

E.g., if Toyota Prime (PHEV) is equipped with the system (it could be optional for that model) - it will not be allowed.
Same with some latest Crown Hybrid.

The list is big and available online.

Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair

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#2845035 7-Jan-2022 21:52

I drove several thousand KMs in Japan in a new Toyota rental car in 2019, and the additional satnav information you get notified about is quite impressive!

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#2845040 7-Jan-2022 22:36

Dingbatt:

With my hybrid experience I am currently pondering whether to go slightly more electrified with a PHEV. Unfortunately many of them have mechanical CVTs (outlander, ioniq and niro prime examples). So the OP may want to consider those as well.

The Mitsubishi Outlander doesn't have a mechanical CVT. In short it has two operational modes

Mechanically powered solely by the two electric motors (Either from the battery solely, or with the motor generator contributing electricity)
At highway speeds in, when in hybrid mode (i.e. battery is low, or save / charge modes are selected) In addition to the stuff above, the engine can be connected mechanical to the front axle via a clutch, and FIXED RATIO gearing.

Operation explained in depth in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ__5-V6CTI

As others have mentioned some example of Mitsubishi PHEV's have had issues with battery degradation (seems to be a lot of variation between vehicles).

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#2845041 7-Jan-2022 22:43

RUKI: Authorities HAVE NOT responded to my official letter and to one local car dealer letter to consider deactivation or at least investigation by our LAB for de-activation of the system in New Zealand before Compliance. So unless that is resolved some awesome cars won't be coming to New Zealand any time soon. :(

This is unfortunate. Imo it's unlikely to be allowed. For example arriving in NZ cars are usually driven off the vessels onto wharf storage. If the goal is eliminating radio interference risk in NZ well that's one place it could easily happen. Sometime later the cars are driven onto transporter trucks for delivery to more storage and so on.

It's a good time to open your Japan branch RUKI : )

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#2845091 7-Jan-2022 23:17

quickymart:

I would go full electric, but am worried about the range, plus the charging cost, not to mention most of the electrics I've seen (usually a Nissan Leaf) cost a bit.

Charging cost is much less than the cost of fuel. A hybrid or EV will cost more than an equivalent ICE but running costs are significantly less.

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#2845093 7-Jan-2022 23:18

As others have said, a subsidy for used hybrids is meant to be kicking in this year, which could drop the cost of the used non plug in ones by about $1k or so. Might be worth waiting for. On the other hand, perhaps prices of used cars will continue to rise, and you would be forgoing fuel savings depending on what your current car is.

If you like a fresh import (unregistered) plug in hybrid (i.e. Prius plug in) , that nets you are $2300 rebate at the moment.

As somebody else mentioned, entry level aqua's (and possibly other low spec JDM cars like Axio hybird & Fielder hybrid) sometimes have an all metal key, which means no immobilizer, and are getting targeted by thieves. Get something with push button start, or an immobilizer.

quickymart:

I'm looking at maybe getting a hybrid in the future. I know about the Toyota Prius, but are there any other ones available in the market today? Trademe searches are useless, they don't even have a hybrid option.

Are there any others besides the Toyota? Do Mazda do them? Nissan? Volkswagen?

Most brands have hybrids these days. As mentioned prior, you can filter fuel type to hybrid on trade-me.

But in the (non plug in) space, I would fully recommend going with Toyota/Lexus. Their Toyota synergy drive is a really sweet system. The car's use heaps less fuel than equivalent petrol ones, and deliver a smooth drive, and are well regarded for reliability.

I have a Lexus RX400h in the driveway (next to a nissan leaf).

In terms of other notable (non plug in) hybird option's from other brands:

Nissan note e-power. Basically designed to be a Prius C beater. Unique (in the non plug in space) in that it is a pure series hybrid. Motor only turns a generator to charge a battery. Wheels are solely turned by an electric motor. Same 80kW unit that is in my bigger and heavier leaf, so must drive pritty nicely.
Honda Fit hybrid. I would rate the hybrid setup as worse that toyota's, but its OK and the Honda Fit / Jazz does have a really practial interior design that many love.
Honda CR-Z. 2 door coupe liftback - most sporty styling in a non premium hybrid. Some older examples are available in manual too. Only manual hybrid I know of.

I wouldn't bother with any mild hybrids, like the suzuki swift.

And the subau e-boxer doesn't really cut the mustard in terms of fuel economy vs toyota.

quickymart:

Probably a hatchback, I don't think I'd need a sedan.

I would go full electric, but am worried about the range, plus the charging cost, not to mention most of the electrics I've seen (usually a Nissan Leaf) cost a bit.

Thanks again for all the replies so far, very interesting.

You have choices galore sir. But knowing budget would narrow it down somewhat.

Toyota unless specified

Hatchbacks:

- Yaris Hybrid
- Aqua / Prius C
- Prius (incl the plug in hybrid variant)
- Corolla Hybrid
- Honda Fit Hybrid
- Lexus CT200h
- Honda insight
- Honda CR-Z

Station wagon:

- Fielder hybrid
- Honda Fit Shuttle hybrid
- Alpha / Prius V

Sedan:

- Corolla Axio
- Sai
- Honda Grace
- Honda civic
- Honda accord
- Camry
- Crown

Really comes down to how big of small of a car you want, how nice, and what form factor.

On full electric:

Electricity is in general much cheaper to power a car (even a hybrid) than petrol is.

Range is not an issue if you have a big budget. (multiple models offering realistic real world ranges over 450km now, And the NZ fast charging network is mature enough, that you could add another 350+ km in a long lunch break if needed).

But if you have a small budget (say under $15k), you are limited to nissan leaf's like mine. (24kWh, 75% battery health). Realistic range of mine is just over 100km. Fine for around town, Auckland city to Phia etc, but we take the other car when we go on road trips.

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RUKI

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#2845096 7-Jan-2022 23:44

Re: SAI - you would have issues with language. Embedded stereo not practical to replace. Dash is not possible to convert.
Why bother buying SAI then at all?

Re: Nissan e-Power. Don't. Rubbish implementation. Doesn't even close by any means to Prius C /Aqua. Tested few as was asked to program keys.
It roars its engine whenever it likes, stationary as well vs Prius C goes in / out of the garage in EV mode always. Prius C - up to 2kms new in EV mode at low speeds - so parking always without fumes. No spare wheel in Nissan. Aqua has it.

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#2845223 8-Jan-2022 11:16

quickymart:

Probably a hatchback, I don't think I'd need a sedan.

I would go full electric, but am worried about the range, plus the charging cost, not to mention most of the electrics I've seen (usually a Nissan Leaf) cost a bit.

Thanks again for all the replies so far, very interesting.

It depends what your daily distance travelled is, how often you might do a trip that exceeds that and and how big your budget is. You can get a used Nissan Leaf under $10k these days, but the range would be around 100-120km. If all you're really using it for is going for getting to and from work, to the shops, or school. If you like to drive to a neighbouring city each month then that might not be so practical.

As for cost of electricity, you'll probably find that your electricity bill will go down since a number of the power companies offer cheaper offpeak rates if you have an EV. In Christchurch, Meridian gives me an offpeak rate of $0.09/kWh. My weekly work commute of 250km costs around $3.60 - in an equivilant petrol car that would cost me $42

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