Wireless charging for EVs now a thing?

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RobDickinson

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#2864580 10-Feb-2022 11:02

mkissin:

Happy to answer any questions about the tech!

That sounds cool, Not sure I see it in use in homes/garages but on street and parking spaces?

Does it have bidirectional potential?

mkissin

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#2864581 10-Feb-2022 11:02

Within the rated offset specifications, so it's a 3D volume. That's a requirement set out in the standards, notably SAE J2954.

The volume is usually 300mm side to side, 200mm front to back, and 60mm tall, but it varies a bit.

mkissin

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#2864586 10-Feb-2022 11:06

RobDickinson:

That sounds cool, Not sure I see it in use in homes/garages but on street and parking spaces?

Does it have bidirectional potential?

Yes, it can do bidirectional, but it's not something currently requested by customers so shipping systems don't support it. There's also a significant argument about whether it would actually be worthwhile. Lots of research in this space.

Once you've used the wireless systems, they're pretty amazing. For public spaces the lack of cabling is a big drawcard. No trip hazards and much less susceptible to vandalism.

Even in the home though, reducing the need to plug in it a bit of a godsend when it's the middle of a storm, or in sub-zero temperature and the charging cable has frozen solid.

RUKI

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#2864646 10-Feb-2022 12:21

@mkissin
For wireless home charging in NZ you may find two or three customers with bottomless pockets who will buy it just to brag around barbecue about their new toy.
The price to install 20A wall socket is circa $150-$250, and many won't even spend that much and continue with 8A EVSE.
Valid points about advantages of wireless charging in public places have 2 straightforward business barriers you will be unable to overcome in the nearest future:
- you will find difficulty to sell extra equipment to private owners to enable existing EV, missing on mass market, I.e. you cannot control financial decision making of the end user who can happily live without it
- you do not own roading and/or parking infrastructure, hence not in financial control and dependent on the land owner's will

Just spend 1 day or few days at any free Vector Fast Charger and run questionary to find out "what's in it for an EV owner" in wireless charging. Be prepared to give out the price to enable the technology in their Leaf, BMW, Ioniq, Tesla and the extra $ they have o spend when charging wirelessly....

Come back with answers from 1000 owners ...

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mkissin

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#2864665 10-Feb-2022 12:42

RUKI: @mkissin
For wireless home charging in NZ you may find two or three customers with bottomless pockets who will buy it just to brag around barbecue about their new toy.
The price to install 20A wall socket is circa $150-$250, and many won't even spend that much and continue with 8A EVSE.
Valid points about advantages of wireless charging in public places have 2 straightforward business barriers you will be unable to overcome in the nearest future:
- you will find difficulty to sell extra equipment to private owners to enable existing EV, missing on mass market, I.e. you cannot control financial decision making of the end user who can happily live without it
- you do not own roading and/or parking infrastructure, hence not in financial control and dependent on the land owner's will

Just spend 1 day or few days at any free Vector Fast Charger and run questionary to find out "what's in it for an EV owner" in wireless charging. Be prepared to give out the price to enable the technology in their Leaf, BMW, Ioniq, Tesla and the extra $ they have o spend when charging wirelessly....

Come back with answers from 1000 owners ...

Real bold of you to assume that neither my company nor Genesis have done any market research.

Either way, our systems start at 11kW, so aren't competing with that 20A wall socket.

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#2864823 10-Feb-2022 15:53

@mkissin

Come back with real sales numbers and surely social media will make a note about it.
Business is not about how cool your product is, but about ROI, EBITDA and your personal bonus after all those successful sales...
So many people are carried away with their business ideas and do not want to listen to any constructive criticism...

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gzt

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#2865004 10-Feb-2022 20:27

mkissin: You could go t now, and buy a Genesis GV60 (assuming you're in Korea) tick the right box, and it'll come with wireless charging right from the factory. That's a WiTricity system.

That's awesome. I see Hyundai plan to include it in all future EVs at some future time. I googled around a bit could not find pictures how it works and clearance etc. Is the vehicle super low or a descending plate or is the pad high to go under the car?

mkissin

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#2865006 10-Feb-2022 20:34

gzt:
mkissin: You could go t now, and buy a Genesis GV60 (assuming you're in Korea) tick the right box, and it'll come with wireless charging right from the factory. That's a WiTricity system.

That's awesome. I see Hyundai plan to include it in all future EVs at some future time. I googled around a bit could not find pictures how it works and clearance etc. Is the vehicle super low or a descending plate or is the pad high to go under the car?

Neither! We can transfer the power across an air gap of 10-15cm with no problem.
The vehicle-mounted pad is basically flush with the bottom of the car (otherwise we might be the lowest point and would run the risk of getting hit if the car bottomed out)
Right at the moment the ground pad will just sit on the ground, making it stick up a bit (they’re about 5cm thick, depending) but they can also be sunk into the ground so they’re flush, or buried if desired, but that obviously increases the install costs.

gzt

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#2865016 10-Feb-2022 20:53

mkissin: our systems start at 11kW, so aren't competing with that 20A wall socket.

I expect there are economies of scale and efficiency with the current systems. Not economic to produce anything smaller yet. Personally I'd be happy with something tiny adding 100km over 12 hours. If I need more I can pull the 15A cord out of the boot a couple of days prior and I'll be fast charging on a trip anyway.

MadEngineer

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#2865020 10-Feb-2022 21:00

MadEngineer: 90% at what proximity? What about with a lowly 100mm clearance?

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

mkissin

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#2865022 10-Feb-2022 21:02

gzt:
mkissin: our systems start at 11kW, so aren't competing with that 20A wall socket.

I expect there are economies of scale and efficiency with the current systems. Not economic to produce anything smaller yet. Personally I'd be happy with something tiny adding 100km over 12 hours. If I need more I can pull the 15A cord out of the boot a couple of days prior and I'll be fast charging on a trip anyway.

this is probably true. For me personally, I also don’t need anywhere near 11kW, and you ideally need three phase electricity for it anyway.

it’s also a factor of the types of cars that are coming with the system. At the moment, from the factory you can buy our system on the Genesis GV60 or the McLaren Speedtail. They’re both high end luxury vehicles. Over time, the tech will trickle down into lower priced vehicles, as it always does.

one thing to note is that the systems are limited in power transfer by their lowest rated half. So halving an 11kW vehicle unit future proofs you a bit for when public infrastructure rolls out. You could still have a 3kW ground pad for home use and they’d work together fine.

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mkissin

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#2865025 10-Feb-2022 21:04

MadEngineer:

MadEngineer: 90% at what proximity? What about with a lowly 100mm clearance?
?

sorry, I wasn’t clear, this response was to you:

Within the rated offset specifications, so it's a 3D volume. That's a requirement set out in the standards, notably SAE J2954.

The volume is usually 300mm side to side, 200mm front to back, and 60mm tall, but it varies a bit.

to add to that, the vertical tolerance is a delta, so that’s 60mm around a nominal height (there are 3 overlapping vertical ranges in the standards)

Jase2985

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#2865026 10-Feb-2022 21:07

MadEngineer:

MadEngineer: 90% at what proximity? What about with a lowly 100mm clearance?
?

watch the 2nd video in post 2 at 2mins in, well over 90% efficiency, and getting closer if not exceeded cables. and the air gap is not the issue.

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