Switch melting when charging Leaf

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ajbw

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#2931445 18-Jun-2022 17:35

The socket is a PDL L692-82 app No. V41.
I've replaced it with an HEM 15A single switched socket.
I'll see how that goes.

The charging setup is as Scott3 describes, so the switch is switching AC.
However, I don't think inrush current is the problem, as the charge current does not flow until some seconds after switching on.

gregmcc

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#2931475 18-Jun-2022 19:21

ajbw: The socket is a PDL L692-82 app No. V41.
I've replaced it with an HEM 15A single switched socket.
I'll see how that goes.

The charging setup is as Scott3 describes, so the switch is switching AC.
However, I don't think inrush current is the problem, as the charge current does not flow until some seconds after switching on.

A typical failure of these is the switch as it's the weak point, I've seen lots fail/melt down when things like heaters and kettles are plugged in.

I suspect the switch mech isn't up to a long time high load.

Try a 693 (double with no switch), I suspect you will have the same issue with the HEM 15A, but time will tell

Scott3

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#2931485 18-Jun-2022 20:42

Tinkerisk:

Thanks for clarification, my Twizy works as simple like that but I use an AC SSR to prevent electrical arcs instead of a mechanical switch. And I was wondering about the ‚OEM audio portable charger‘ that implied to me the use of a separate DC charger.

Then either the switch could be destroyed by time due to a higher inrush current of the AC charger or it‘s simple a quality issue. :-)

Ah, I see where the confusion came from.

"Charger", is common slang for EVSE. Kinda flows better in conversation than than "Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment", and the subsequent explanation that you just mean the thing on the wall, or brick in the cord.

I don't switch the socket my EV is plugged under load, I allway's remove the car end first (the button on the car end plug breaks the control circuit, which causes the car to immediately stop charging, so no arcing at that end either.

I doubt the charger has much of an in-rush, and domestic sockets seem to have no issue starting things that do, like the induction motors on drill presses & incinerators.

Typically electrical stuff getting too hot is a result of, too much resistance, meaning more than the expected amount of heat is generated, And when things are hot their resistance further increases, further inc reading the amount of heat.

Without some forensic examination it is unclear why this switch / socket combination overheated when use well under it's rated 10A. But a defective item seems like a strong bet.

I'm not an electrical engineer, but I used to work in alongside a bunch, and they always seemed to have a bunch of failed gear (usually commercial / industrial size), sitting around for assessment.

MadEngineer

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#2931789 19-Jun-2022 19:26

Not that you shouldn't be able to do this, but are you either terminating or starting the charge with that switch? Is there not a stop/start button for the charge function?

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Technofreak

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#2931819 19-Jun-2022 21:05

gregmcc:

ajbw: The socket is a PDL L692-82 app No. V41.
I've replaced it with an HEM 15A single switched socket.
I'll see how that goes.

The charging setup is as Scott3 describes, so the switch is switching AC.
However, I don't think inrush current is the problem, as the charge current does not flow until some seconds after switching on.

A typical failure of these is the switch as it's the weak point, I've seen lots fail/melt down when things like heaters and kettles are plugged in.

I suspect the switch mech isn't up to a long time high load.

Try a 693 (double with no switch), I suspect you will have the same issue with the HEM 15A, but time will tell

When you see how the switch mechanism is constructed more especially the connection between the moving piece and the pivot point it's no wonder a bit of heat is created. There's not a lot of surface area making contact.

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Scott3

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#2931973 20-Jun-2022 08:04

MadEngineer:

Not that you shouldn't be able to do this, but are you either terminating or starting the charge with that switch? Is there not a stop/start button for the charge function?

Not OP, But given they are using a portable car charging cable with a brick style EVSE near the wall outlet the following applies:

Generally no buttons or switches on the EVSE (that said, mine is switchable between 6A & 8A, and has the option to delay the start time).
When starting the session, even if everything was connected first, and the switch turned on last, the car and EVSE still need to do their handshake before the EVSE closes it's relay contacts, and then subsequently the car starts it's charger. As such at time of switching the only current being drawn would be the tiny transformer in the EVSE to run the communications and relays.
You of course can switch off the power while under load, but if one wants to avoid this, they can unplug the car of the cable first. With a type 1 connector (Nissan leaf) the button to release the mechanical latch, also cuts the comm's signal, which tells the car to stop charging, avoiding arcing on the main pins.

Generally one would leave the wall plug connected, and power to the EVSE on, and simply plug and unplug the car. Obviously most convenient, and unlike domestic outlets, EV specific plug is designed for a heap (10,000 I think) of plug / unplug cycles. The EVSE cuts power to the car plug (and adjacent cord), when it is not connected to a car.

RunningMan

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#2931975 20-Jun-2022 08:13

To add to @Scott3 for a type 2 connector vehicle, there is no button on the plug to stop charging, and the plug is locked to the vehicle with a solenoid when charging is in progress, so the plug cannot be removed/stolen. Different manufacturers have different approaches, however unlocking the car will usually stop the charge and unlock the cable as well, which would allow the power switch on the outlet to be turned off without arcing.

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MadEngineer

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#2932003 20-Jun-2022 10:21

Good info, will be interesting to see what ajbw is doing.

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morrisk

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#2932015 20-Jun-2022 10:43

Interesting to read this thread.

I have had an EV for 5 years now and my routine based upon something that I must have read or been told when I first got the car was to switch on the charger at the wall and then plug it into the car. The reverse when stopping i.e take out the plug from the car then turn off the wall switch.

I guess this may be based upon minimising any arcing at the switch.

MadEngineer

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#2932590 21-Jun-2022 15:50

Also, out of interest, how long does it take to fully charge your leaf from that standard socket?

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morrisk

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#2932663 21-Jun-2022 16:40

My car is not a Leaf but an 2017 Ioniq. Charging time if I set the amps at 6A is around 8 hours to reach the 80% from about 20%. Can also set at 8 amps and this shortens time. Time is never an issue as overnight always provides enough for my daily use in terms of kms. Often in fact I may only be charging every 2nd or 3rd day overnight.

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