Cubic to implement national ticketing solution

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#2985818 21-Oct-2022 12:34

I wonder what effect this announcement will have on the roll out of Snapper on Wellington trains this month and next? Seems like an awful amount of money being invested in that (finally!) but if this new system isn't compatible, then it's money flushed away.

Obraik

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#2985822 21-Oct-2022 12:41

Scott3:

Kinda a pity to throw away the Auckland system. Not sure what the total cost came to, but it was at least $9m (spent in 2010 / 2011). With the design intent, it could be rolled out nationwide if wanted.

When I lived in Auckland for a few years, I honestly found Auckland's system frustrating. If you want to add credit to your HOP card you have to make sure you do it before 10pm the day before, otherwise you need to find a payment terminal to top it up before you got on whatever public transport you're using. Sounds fine, but the area I lived in did not have a payment terminal (even at the ferry terminal) so I was stuck having to pay by card. You also might think "oh, I'll just top up ahead of time so I have credit on the HOP card" but if you're an infrequent user like I was, then after 60 days that gets refunded back to your bank card if you don't use it.

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johno1234

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#2985826 21-Oct-2022 12:57

I just set an auto top-up $10 if it goes under $5 and live with the fact I am giving AT an interest free loan. It seems to allow going negative balance too.

allan

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#2985831 21-Oct-2022 13:11

Ge0rge: I wonder what effect this announcement will have on the roll out of Snapper on Wellington trains this month and next? Seems like an awful amount of money being invested in that (finally!) but if this new system isn't compatible, then it's money flushed away.

None whatsoever, because the first region being targeted for the Cubic system is Canterbury in 2024 (which will surely become at least 2025), whereas Snapper is already in use on the Johnsonville line and the installation of Snapper readers on the other lines well under way.

lchiu7

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#2985832 21-Oct-2022 13:12

With Snapper I just top up with my (Android) phone when required. I also top up my wife's card because she can't from an iPhone.

johno1234

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#2985849 21-Oct-2022 13:28

lchiu7:

With Snapper I just top up with my (Android) phone when required. I also top up my wife's card because she can't from an iPhone.

You can top up an AT Hop card at a kiosk, with a web browser or mobile app or auto top-up. The problem is the weirdness of Hop card balances only updating overnight. Or when the card is used. Or something. All quite confusing. Someone at GZ once posted a coherent explanation of why it is designed this way, but I can't remember what that was.

ezbee

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#2985869 21-Oct-2022 14:07

PolicyGuy.

The problem with free pubic transport in Auckland is that the security provided around payment is needed to ensure general security of passengers as well.

Particularly on Trains there are safety issues without conductors and other security around stations. In my area passengers being accosted for money to snatching phones or handbags.

Busses you are not so trapped, and driver is there to call for help, but still seen some troubling behavior.
It's no wonder that hiring bus drivers is difficult.

So free public transport is great, but don't think you will lower security costs.

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Stu1

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#2985879 21-Oct-2022 14:26

allan:
Ge0rge: I wonder what effect this announcement will have on the roll out of Snapper on Wellington trains this month and next? Seems like an awful amount of money being invested in that (finally!) but if this new system isn't compatible, then it's money flushed away.

None whatsoever, because the first region being targeted for the Cubic system is Canterbury in 2024 (which will surely become at least 2025), whereas Snapper is already in use on the Johnsonville line and the installation of Snapper readers on the other lines well under way.

The should revisit the decision now , why roll out a temporary solution when the current one works just fine

wellygary

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#2985880 21-Oct-2022 15:14

Stu1:

The should revisit the decision now , why roll out a temporary solution when the current one works just fine

No, looking at the rollout its pretty basic,

and

Until you roll out electronic rail ticketing you cannot rationalise the fare structures ( monthly passes/10 trips/single) , or have integrated pricing across rail and bus... Once you have E-ticketing on rail then you can do this,

+ big chunks of the infra work (tap posts etc ) will have to be put in anyway...

Both the pricing and infra work will still need to be done for a Cubic Rollout anyway, so they are not lost costs,

old3eyes

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#2985882 21-Oct-2022 15:37

xpd:

Won't happen in Auckland.

AT don't even follow their own rules, so don't see them following anyone elses.

They may have no choice.

Regards,

Old3eyes

wellygary

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#2985885 21-Oct-2022 15:43

old3eyes:

xpd:

Won't happen in Auckland.

AT don't even follow their own rules, so don't see them following anyone elses.

They may have no choice.

I can hear it now,

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PolicyGuy

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#2985887 21-Oct-2022 15:52

ezbee:

PolicyGuy.

The problem with free pubic transport in Auckland is that the security provided around payment is needed to ensure general security of passengers as well.

Particularly on Trains there are safety issues without conductors and other security around stations. In my area passengers being accosted for money to snatching phones or handbags.

Busses you are not so trapped, and driver is there to call for help, but still seen some troubling behavior.
It's no wonder that hiring bus drivers is difficult.

So free public transport is great, but don't think you will lower security costs.

While this is unfortunately true, general passenger & pedestrian security isn't an area in which I am aiming to reduce costs.

The big cost savings in free public transport come from not having the small army of back office folks who purchase and account for tickets, account for cash and 'electronic' money, collect and distribute ticket stocks and cash, process requests for ticket-related subsidies, and audit all these activities to make sure nobody steals / misappropriates the money or the valuable tickets. Oh, and the HR folks and all the supervisors & Managers to do all the management stuff.
The providers tender to provide so many seats at such and such a frequency on each route, they're not required to account for how many people travel on school tickets, Gold Card tickets, ten-trips, monthly passes, or buy-on-board.
Probably somebody looks at a random selection of in-vehicle CCTVs to see if the supplied capacity is matching the demand, and then adjusts the purchased capacity as needed.

There are smaller but significant savings to be made from not buying expensive accounting & e-ticket software, and not buying or maintaining tag-on / tag-off machines and other related equipment.

sen8or

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#2985890 21-Oct-2022 15:58

There used to be a single method to pay for pretty much anything you wanted, accepted nationwide and was at no extra cost whatsoever, it even came in paper or metal format. Ahhh, the price of progress.

I have about as much faith in any Govt overseeing such a project, to completion, on time and on budget as I do in winning a $50mio powerball jackpot without buying a ticket

PolicyGuy

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#2985892 21-Oct-2022 16:01

wellygary:

Stu1:

The should revisit the decision now , why roll out a temporary solution when the current one works just fine

No, looking at the rollout its pretty basic,

and

Until you roll out electronic rail ticketing you cannot rationalise the fare structures ( monthly passes/10 trips/single) , or have integrated pricing across rail and bus... Once you have E-ticketing on rail then you can do this,

+ big chunks of the infra work (tap posts etc ) will have to be put in anyway...

Both the pricing and infra work will still need to be done for a Cubic Rollout anyway, so they are not lost costs,

But if you go to a Free Public Transport model, you don't have to do any of this.

You don't have to:

rationalise fare structures - they're all the same, Zero / zip / nada / free;
integrate pricing across transport modes, it's all the same everywhere - free;
send Cubic (or anyone else) a truckload of mostly foreign exchange money for ticketing software, because you're not ticketing; or
invest in "big chunks of the infra work (tap posts etc )" because it's just not needed at all

It's so, soooo much simpler, but it's "Socialist Transport" and therefore unthinkable

johno1234

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#2985901 21-Oct-2022 16:38

It is funny when people talk about "free public transport" as if it doesn't actually have to be paid for.

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