Metlink switches to a weekend schedule for their buses on weekdays - so people are left standing angrily as the bus whizzes by full

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Metlink switches to a weekend schedule for their buses on weekdays - so people are left standing angrily as the bus whizzes by full

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#3022259 16-Jan-2023 19:29

Caught a #2 from Manners St to Karori at about 4:15pm today, which even on a weekend schedule is every 10 minutes, but it was full before we even got to the last stop in the CBD.

Interestingly not all Metlink bus services are running a weekend schedule, because the #33 and #34 peak-hour services from Karori South and West to/from Brandon St are running, together with the daytime shuttle services from Karori South and West to/from Karori Mall. Under normal timetabling, they don't run at weekends.

Edited to clarify.

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#3022261 16-Jan-2023 19:38

Fundamentally, the council seems to have the options of underpromise & deliver what's promised, or say they're going to use a normal schedule and cancel last minute. The former is, theoretically at least, better.

Or they could improve pay and conditions to better retain drivers, or require drivers and passengers to wear masks so that fewer drivers are off sick with COVID, or...

It would also be good for the rail line pricing and timing to be improved an incentivised. The rail line has plenty of capacity and its use should be encouraged.

It's stupid that if you want to go from e.g. JVille to Karori, it's cheaper to take bus+bus than train+bus, because the bus+bus gets a transfer while the train ticketing is completely separate, even though they're now both Snapper. I can't say I ever really catch the JVille line, but I don't think congestion is too bad? I saw a 2-car set at peak time today and I don't think it was very full. 4-car is typical and the infrastructure was upgraded to run 6-cars in ~2010 but I don't think they have yet.

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#3022282 16-Jan-2023 20:07

lchiu7:

...because of driver shortages

If only there was some way, in a capitalist system, to encourage more people to become drivers...

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#3022286 16-Jan-2023 20:13

I was waiting for the 4:40 Number 1 to Johnsonville West at Lambton Quay north end stop tonight, and bus didn't stop. Full Standing load.

5.02pm Wellington - Johnsonville train cancelled, and only 1 train (2 cars) for the 5:17 service. I never seen a train so full. It was absolutely packed!

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#3022292 16-Jan-2023 20:23

SomeoneSomewhere:

Fundamentally, the council seems to have the options of underpromise & deliver what's promised, or say they're going to use a normal schedule and cancel last minute. The former is, theoretically at least, better.

The problem is that they reduce the timetable in order to "provide certainty", but then over time they gradually start cancelling services on that reduced timetable, so they reduce the timetable further and the cycle repeats.

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#3022298 16-Jan-2023 20:28

Yes, that's a major problem long-term, and I would argue that they should be publishing metrics relating to service quality beyond just percentage-on-time and percentage cancelled. Percentage of services that hit peak occupancy, for example, and annual ridership are obvious tell-tales. Along with analysis of service frequency, but that's harder to compare with bus services that get re-arranged than with rail services where they can't do much to the route other than alter length/frequency of trains.

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#3023169 18-Jan-2023 11:20

This news does not make me feel the situation is going to improve.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/130989034/100-overseas-drivers-on-the-way-to-save-wellington-from-bustastrophe

Having taken buses in off-peak times where there might be half a dozen or passengers on the bus (even a double deckefr) I have wondered why Metlink doesn't use mini-buses in those times seating up to 12. Firstly the drivers might not need HT licences and training might not take so long. So they could have a set of workers who can drive all types of buses and those who are only qualified to drive the mini bus. It could mean that a fully-qualified driver not needed to drive a bus in off-peak time could be deployed for peak duty only.

Just a random thought. When I lived in HK I rode mini-buses a lot and they seated about 12 and even took the Octopus card (their Snapper equivalent).

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#3023174 18-Jan-2023 12:01

lchiu7:

This news does not make me feel the situation is going to improve.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/130989034/100-overseas-drivers-on-the-way-to-save-wellington-from-bustastrophe

Having taken buses in off-peak times where there might be half a dozen or passengers on the bus (even a double deckefr) I have wondered why Metlink doesn't use mini-buses in those times seating up to 12. Firstly the drivers might not need HT licences and training might not take so long. So they could have a set of workers who can drive all types of buses and those who are only qualified to drive the mini bus. It could mean that a fully-qualified driver not needed to drive a bus in off-peak time could be deployed for peak duty only.

Just a random thought. When I lived in HK I rode mini-buses a lot and they seated about 12 and even took the Octopus card (their Snapper equivalent).

The bus companies have already spent millions to buy a fleet of large buses, so going further and buying mini-buses for off-peak basically increases the investment required but doesn't increase the return =. It just means that the buses they have already bought spend more time sitting around being unused. Mini buses are generally only used for services which don't have a peak, or where their mini-size matches demand. Examples being the on-demand service in Tawa, or the Casebrook route in Christchurch (basically no commuters, just old folk going shopping which was spread evenly through the day).

One of the biggest problem with the driver shortage is the split shift associated with peak morning and peak afternoon services. The way to deal with this is to flatten peak demand into off-peak, by discounting off-peak fares further (I think Metlink is looking at going from 25% offpeak discount to 50%). This means you need fewer drivers for the peak period, and can offer say two shift options 6am-2pm or 2pm-10pm instead of one combined 6am-10am, 3pm-7pm split shift. This means that HT drivers are integral to peak and off-peak services.

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#3023207 18-Jan-2023 14:01

nickb800:

lchiu7:

This news does not make me feel the situation is going to improve.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/130989034/100-overseas-drivers-on-the-way-to-save-wellington-from-bustastrophe

Having taken buses in off-peak times where there might be half a dozen or passengers on the bus (even a double deckefr) I have wondered why Metlink doesn't use mini-buses in those times seating up to 12. Firstly the drivers might not need HT licences and training might not take so long. So they could have a set of workers who can drive all types of buses and those who are only qualified to drive the mini bus. It could mean that a fully-qualified driver not needed to drive a bus in off-peak time could be deployed for peak duty only.

Just a random thought. When I lived in HK I rode mini-buses a lot and they seated about 12 and even took the Octopus card (their Snapper equivalent).

The bus companies have already spent millions to buy a fleet of large buses, so going further and buying mini-buses for off-peak basically increases the investment required but doesn't increase the return =. It just means that the buses they have already bought spend more time sitting around being unused. Mini buses are generally only used for services which don't have a peak, or where their mini-size matches demand. Examples being the on-demand service in Tawa, or the Casebrook route in Christchurch (basically no commuters, just old folk going shopping which was spread evenly through the day).

One of the biggest problem with the driver shortage is the split shift associated with peak morning and peak afternoon services. The way to deal with this is to flatten peak demand into off-peak, by discounting off-peak fares further (I think Metlink is looking at going from 25% offpeak discount to 50%). This means you need fewer drivers for the peak period, and can offer say two shift options 6am-2pm or 2pm-10pm instead of one combined 6am-10am, 3pm-7pm split shift. This means that HT drivers are integral to peak and off-peak services.

I am not sure decreasing off-peak fares is going to encourage peak riders to go to off-peak since peak riders are typically commuters. So unless their employers offer flexible hours of work, that is not going to have much impact. Or I guess people could do a few hours from home in the morning and then take the bus to work?

As for mini buses the spectacle of two double deckers passing each other (or trying to pass each other) on Onslow Road is a sight to behold:-) The council could probably buy a fleet of mini buses for Metlink for less than the cost of the pedestrian crossing they built on Cobham Drive (don't want to let my politics betray me here)

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#3023345 18-Jan-2023 19:08

WyleECoyoteNZ:

I was waiting for the 4:40 Number 1 to Johnsonville West at Lambton Quay north end stop tonight, and bus didn't stop. Full Standing load.

5.02pm Wellington - Johnsonville train cancelled, and only 1 train (2 cars) for the 5:17 service. I never seen a train so full. It was absolutely packed!

Yeah, that's a problem. It doesn't really take any more staff to use a longer train - a second ticket collector would be good, but not really necessary.

To some degree the problem is probably predicting ridership in advance. That could explain the mostly-empty buses running around and the mix of over-crowded and empty-but-massive trains.

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#3023536 19-Jan-2023 09:04

Here is another anomaly. Waiting for the 24 Khandallah bus on Willis Street expecting it to arrive at about 5pm. During that time 4 #2 Karori buses came by so they can't be operating on a weekend schedule.

Trying to commiserate with work colleagues who showed no sympathy saying people who live in Khandallah don't normally take buses :-( But they fail to realise that the destination of the bus is Johnsonville and (insert a few smilies here) people in Jville are more likely to be bus users. The only other rational reason I can think of their being fewer 24 buses to Johnsonville via Khandallah is that there are buses to JVille that don't go via Khandallah (go up the Gorge) and there is a train service (which for leaves me about 2k's away from home so it's not convenient).

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#3023552 19-Jan-2023 09:26

alasta:
It's disgraceful. I've been walking 6.5km each morning and evening between town and Island Bay because the bus service here is currently unusable. Fortunately with the good weather this week I'm planning to have a swim in the harbour after work and go home a bit later so that I can avoid the peak time.

It's going to be really interesting to see what happens after the 27th when the standard timetable is supposed to return. Late last year the number of cancellations was getting to a point where it was becoming extremely difficult to get home, although the morning didn't seem quite so bad.

As an alternative while this is happening, when in town take the 29 to Brooklyn (via Southgate) it will go through Newtown up Buckley Rd then down to the New World Island Bay supermarket where you can get off, the walk will be less and the bus is quite empty. Ditto you can pick up bus 29 from supermarket to go back into town, again via Buckley Road. Just make sure it has Railway Station on the front before you get on or check direction with driver.

alasta

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#3023556 19-Jan-2023 09:37

Eva888:
alasta:

It's disgraceful. I've been walking 6.5km each morning and evening between town and Island Bay because the bus service here is currently unusable. Fortunately with the good weather this week I'm planning to have a swim in the harbour after work and go home a bit later so that I can avoid the peak time.

As an alternative while this is happening, when in town take the 29 to Brooklyn (via Southgate) it will go through Newtown up Buckley Rd then down to the New World Island Bay supermarket where you can get off, the walk will be less and the bus is quite empty. Ditto you can pick up bus 29 from supermarket to go back into town, again via Buckley Road. Just make sure it has Railway Station on the front before you get on or check direction with driver.

I used to live on Buckley Road for many years so I am very familiar with this route. During normal times it works well as I can get off at Volga Street and my home is a short walk from there, but with the chaos going on at the moment I am working on the assumption that all services will be overloaded. I see a lot of buses passing me on Adelaide Road as I am walking in to work, including the #29, and when I look at them I can't help wondering how many of them are occupied beyond the limits of their loading certificates.

All I can say is there must be a lot of covid circulating on buses at the moment.

lchiu7

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#3023580 19-Jan-2023 10:23

Eva888:
alasta:

It's disgraceful. I've been walking 6.5km each morning and evening between town and Island Bay because the bus service here is currently unusable. Fortunately with the good weather this week I'm planning to have a swim in the harbour after work and go home a bit later so that I can avoid the peak time.

It's going to be really interesting to see what happens after the 27th when the standard timetable is supposed to return. Late last year the number of cancellations was getting to a point where it was becoming extremely difficult to get home, although the morning didn't seem quite so bad.

As an alternative while this is happening, when in town take the 29 to Brooklyn (via Southgate) it will go through Newtown up Buckley Rd then down to the New World Island Bay supermarket where you can get off, the walk will be less and the bus is quite empty. Ditto you can pick up bus 29 from supermarket to go back into town, again via Buckley Road. Just make sure it has Railway Station on the front before you get on or check direction with driver.

Another Khandallah experience this morning. The bus arrived pretty full and the 4 of us waiting at the stop managed to cram onboard with some folks standing in the door well which I think is not OSH compliant.

Whizzing past the next stop where 6 people waiting I could see the despair in their faces realising they had another hour before the next bus. It might have been faster to walk down te Onslow Rd to the Hutt Road (near the Caltex) and catch a bus coming from LH or down the Gorge.

I overheard some casual conversaation between a passenger and the driver with the driver saying they were really sorry about the inconvenience but there were just no drivers around. I wonder how that situation is going to be better in February when they say they are going to revert back to a normal schedule?

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#3023767 19-Jan-2023 12:39

To me the underlying cause of this fiasco dates back to the massive re-org back in 2018 and giving the contracts, I expect based on lowest price, to organisations with questionably employment ethics. This article tells us how wonderful it was all going to be.

Some memorable snippets (Wayne Hastie was GWRC general manager of public transport)

Stuff:

But the end result, Hastie says, will be a public transport system that is simpler, easier and more reliable.

... not absolutely everyone [commuters] will be in a better position. But Hastie says the vast majority will be...

...the new network will be a drastic improvement on the convoluted, outdated system bus users have endured in recent years.

The network will take people to "more places, more often"...

There will be large, medium and small buses at the council's disposal, Hastie said. "In the past, we’ve just had these big buses running everywhere on all the services, whether we needed a big bus or just a small bus."

But Deb Hume, the regional council's public transport transformation programme director, says the Wellington changes should run a lot smoother. [referring to some earlier 'teething problems' in the Hutt Valley overhaul]

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

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