Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3
jonathan18
7413 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted

  #3027229 26-Jan-2023 08:21
Send private message

Obraik:

 

Since early 2022, Tesla switched from the traditional 12v lead acid battery to a 15v lithium battery in all their vehicles, mostly to resolve the inevitable reliability issue that comes from the traditional batteries. If you have a Tesla with the Ryzen processor for its infotainment (visible in the "About" screen of your car settings) then you have this.

 

That's not to say they're immune to fault, but it should be a lot less than a lead-acid.

 

 

@Obraik - do you know the answer to my earlier question re these batteries, ie whether one can use a lithium-powered jump starter with them?

 

What's weird as well is I still see references to them being 12v, eg the battery Drive EV is selling https://shop.driveev.co.nz/products/copy-of-ohmmu-12v-lithium-battery-for-tesla-model-y - or is this designed for replacing a lead acid 12v in an earlier Tesla? It's just that it's advertised for a Y, and of course all Ys in NZ will come with a lithium secondary battery.




Obraik
2123 posts

Uber Geek


  #3027244 26-Jan-2023 09:25
Send private message

jonathan18:

 

@Obraik - do you know the answer to my earlier question re these batteries, ie whether one can use a lithium-powered jump starter with them?

 

What's weird as well is I still see references to them being 12v, eg the battery Drive EV is selling https://shop.driveev.co.nz/products/copy-of-ohmmu-12v-lithium-battery-for-tesla-model-y - or is this designed for replacing a lead acid 12v in an earlier Tesla? It's just that it's advertised for a Y, and of course all Ys in NZ will come with a lithium secondary battery.

 

 

Yes you can, as you can still run it flat (eg, the HV battery runs completely flat and can't keep the LV battery topped up). You're not really "jump starting" it as such but rather giving the car enough power to engage the HV contactors. The manual has instructions (scroll to the bottom of the linked section) for jump starting both battery types.

 

The battery Drive EV is selling is to retrofit a Lithium battery into an older car that still has the Lead-Acid battery and runs on a 12v system. This isn't relevant to the Model Y in New Zealand as they all have the factory 15v lithium battery.

 

 





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits


arthurgeek

10 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #3027669 26-Jan-2023 20:07
Send private message

Obraik:

 

Since early 2022, Tesla switched from the traditional 12v lead acid battery to a 15v lithium battery in all their vehicles, mostly to resolve the inevitable reliability issue that comes from the traditional batteries. If you have a Tesla with the Ryzen processor for its infotainment (visible in the "About" screen of your car settings) then you have this.

 

That's not to say they're immune to fault, but it should be a lot less than a lead-acid.

 

 

That's interesting, I'm a bit surprised BYD chose to use 12V lead acid batteries in its Atto 3 EVs, after all, BYD established the world-leading "blade" battery technology as the main battery in its EVs:

 

https://en.byd.com/news/byds-new-blade-battery-set-to-redefine-ev-safety-standards/

 

I'm sure BYD EVs would also benefit from a 15V lithium battery. In light of the recent problems BYD has experienced with 12V lead acid batteries, do you think BYD (and other EV manufacturers) will switch to 15V lithium batteries, as Tesla has? 




shk292
2853 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #3027671 26-Jan-2023 20:16
Send private message

Noticed a BYD Atto 3 seemingly abandoned on the side of the motorway just north of Oteha this evening - presumably that's another example of this problem.

 

Quite glad my BYD experience didn't progress past the test drive stage given the problems that have occurred


michaelmurfy
meow
13240 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3027673 26-Jan-2023 20:34
Send private message

shk292:

 

Noticed a BYD Atto 3 seemingly abandoned on the side of the motorway just north of Oteha this evening - presumably that's another example of this problem.

 

Could be many reasons for this. Like I said earlier there are actually few customers who have experienced this problem of the total pool of customers.

 

Battery problems can happen with any car EV or not. Breakdowns are the same. I still think the BYD Atto 3 is a great car + also great value for money.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

Are you happy with what you get from Geekzone? Please consider supporting us by subscribing.
Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.


lchiu7
6470 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #3027678 26-Jan-2023 20:56
Send private message

michaelmurfy:

 

shk292:

 

Noticed a BYD Atto 3 seemingly abandoned on the side of the motorway just north of Oteha this evening - presumably that's another example of this problem.

 

Could be many reasons for this. Like I said earlier there are actually few customers who have experienced this problem of the total pool of customers.

 

Battery problems can happen with any car EV or not. Breakdowns are the same. I still think the BYD Atto 3 is a great car + also great value for money.

 

 

Agreed. One swallow doesn't make a summer.

 

My ATTO3 was on the first shipment that came from China and has never experienced this problem and now I have the firmware upgrade which applies more agressive battery management to address this problem.

 

I have only ever charged the car from either the granny charger or commercial DC chargers and have not used any faster AC chargers, a situation where BYD says might be a potential cause for the 12V battery failure in rare cases.


shk292
2853 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #3027683 26-Jan-2023 21:24
Send private message

I was very drawn to the Atto 3 by its value and overall specs but actually was put off by the seats, which I found very uncomfortable.  I'm sure that BYD will continue to have a good influence on the EV market in NZ, but as with any leading edge tech there are bound to be issues. 


 
 
 

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.
Obraik
2123 posts

Uber Geek


  #3027760 27-Jan-2023 09:48
Send private message

arthurgeek:

 

I'm sure BYD EVs would also benefit from a 15V lithium battery. In light of the recent problems BYD has experienced with 12V lead acid batteries, do you think BYD (and other EV manufacturers) will switch to 15V lithium batteries, as Tesla has? 

 

 

I would be surprised if they didn't. Tesla tends to lead on these kind of changes and then the others follow along. BYD is trying to replicate the Tesla journey so they'll probably do the same.





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits


lchiu7
6470 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #3027796 27-Jan-2023 11:06
Send private message

Obraik:

 

arthurgeek:

 

I'm sure BYD EVs would also benefit from a 15V lithium battery. In light of the recent problems BYD has experienced with 12V lead acid batteries, do you think BYD (and other EV manufacturers) will switch to 15V lithium batteries, as Tesla has? 

 

 

I would be surprised if they didn't. Tesla tends to lead on these kind of changes and then the others follow along. BYD is trying to replicate the Tesla journey so they'll probably do the same.

 

 

 

 

Well it appears Tesla is going to use BYD batteries so the follower is now a leader

 

 

 

https://thedriven.io/2022/08/15/tesla-model-y-to-get-byd-blade-batteries-in-europe/#:~:text=BYD%20LFP%20batteries%20in%20Tesla,at%20the%20Giga%20Berlin%20factory.

 

 


tripper1000
1617 posts

Uber Geek


  #3027869 27-Jan-2023 13:47
Send private message

I agree with the sentiment that some EV's do a lousy job of charging the 12v battery. My Leaf slowly runs the 12v battery down, possible because my commute isn't long enough to thoroughly recharge it (?) and I use the charge timer, so the EVSE is plugged in for hours while being inactive. This could also be the same for other EV's. 

 

I've had trouble with the Leaf not starting in the past (yes, also used a lithium jump pack). I now top my Leaf's 12v battery up with a manual charger approx monthly and don't have issues. Quite often when I put the charger on I find the battery is down to 12.3v confirming that it is run down and due a top up (it should ideally be 12.6 - 12.8v when the car is off, and anything under 12.0 v is dipping into risky territory. The voltage will rapidly drop from 12v to 10v at which point a Leaf won't start and the dash lights go schizo). 

 

Also, just be sure you don't have any accessories plugged into the OBD2 port, like a blue-tooth diagnostic dongle, dash-cam, remote gauges or GPS tracker, (or aftermarket accessories connected to the battery like car alarms or those snake-oil rust repellers or EMP protection devices). OBD2 port is live all the time so these gadgets can accelerate battery drain even when the car is off.

 

 


arthurgeek

10 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #3027893 27-Jan-2023 14:51
Send private message

One or two BYD Atto 3 owners have mentioned in FB posts that, if the main battery falls to a state of charge of less than 15%, the 12V battery will no longer be topped up by the main battery. 

 

If this is true, it might pay owners to make sure the main battery is immediately charged up once it gets to a SOC of less than 15%. Can anyone confirm whether all EVs stop charging the 12V battery when the SOC of the main battery drops to quite a low level.


Obraik
2123 posts

Uber Geek


  #3027904 27-Jan-2023 15:03
Send private message

lchiu7:

 

Well it appears Tesla is going to use BYD batteries so the follower is now a leader

 

 

 

https://thedriven.io/2022/08/15/tesla-model-y-to-get-byd-blade-batteries-in-europe/#:~:text=BYD%20LFP%20batteries%20in%20Tesla,at%20the%20Giga%20Berlin%20factory.

 

 

 

 

BYD will be a supplier of LFP batteries for their Berlin factory, similar to our CATL is in Shanghai

 

arthurgeek:

 

One or two BYD Atto 3 owners have mentioned in FB posts that, if the main battery falls to a state of charge of less than 15%, the 12V battery will no longer be topped up by the main battery. 

 

If this is true, it might pay owners to make sure the main battery is immediately charged up once it gets to a SOC of less than 15%. Can anyone confirm whether EVs stop charging the 12V battery when the SOC of the main battery drops to quite a low level.

 

 

A Tesla will. Once the main pack gets low (I can't remember the exact number, but it's very low) it will stop maintaining the 12v/15v battery and it will warn that if you leave the car that it might not start again if you don't charge it.





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits


lchiu7
6470 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #3027916 27-Jan-2023 15:17
Send private message

Obraik:

 

A Tesla will. Once the main pack gets low (I can't remember the exact number, but it's very low) it will stop maintaining the 12v/15v battery and it will warn that if you leave the car that it might not start again if you don't charge it.

 

 

I am not a car electrician but I always thought in an ICE the alternator is used to both charge the battery and drive all the car electronics. So the battery is really only needed for car starting when it needs huge amount of cranking amps and then for powering accessories when the engine is off. For an EV that is not required but I would hope that the 12V load in the car is being supplied, not by the battery, but from the main battery via a DC-DC converter. Since the 12V battery does not need cranking amps it still does need to be able to power all the 12v systems for a decent amount of time so maybe a larger battery is required.

 

 

 

Of course in an ICE the alternator continues to work even if you are low on petrol but from has been posted above, if the main battery in the Tesla is low, then to allow you keep eeking out the last km to get you to the next charging station, it diverts all power to the motor. So the morale is, if you are low on main battery, turn off all the devices that uses the battery.


Obraik
2123 posts

Uber Geek


  #3027950 27-Jan-2023 16:40
Send private message

At least in a Tesla, the 12v system is powered by the DC-DC converter, but that is disconnected when the car goes to sleep. Normally the car will wake up if it detects the 12v is below a threshold (since there are still some 12v systems running while the car sleeps) but it won't do that if the main battery is too low.





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits


richms
28168 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3028025 27-Jan-2023 21:09
Send private message

lchiu7:

 

I am not a car electrician but I always thought in an ICE the alternator is used to both charge the battery and drive all the car electronics. So the battery is really only needed for car starting when it needs huge amount of cranking amps and then for powering accessories when the engine is off. For an EV that is not required but I would hope that the 12V load in the car is being supplied, not by the battery, but from the main battery via a DC-DC converter. Since the 12V battery does not need cranking amps it still does need to be able to power all the 12v systems for a decent amount of time so maybe a larger battery is required.

 

 

 

Of course in an ICE the alternator continues to work even if you are low on petrol but from has been posted above, if the main battery in the Tesla is low, then to allow you keep eeking out the last km to get you to the next charging station, it diverts all power to the motor. So the morale is, if you are low on main battery, turn off all the devices that uses the battery.

 

 

No, with "smart" alternators they cut the alternator out totally when the battery is reasonably full so that it scores slightly better on the BS fuel economy tests. If your battery is near dead it can result in it stalling out, even tho it has enough to crank a little 4 cylinder, with all the other stuff it can sag too much when running high loads unexpectedly.





Richard rich.ms

1 | 2 | 3
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.