Any thoughts on small cars with diesels

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martyyn

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#3040797 23-Feb-2023 11:04

rb99:

I'm talking 2nd(+) hand, maybe mid 2010's, 100,000ish k's, $10,000ish, small and economical.

The OP is considering an older diesel so comments about how expensive new diesel vehicles can be to service are out of context.

Scott3

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#3040848 23-Feb-2023 12:38

On servicing, As a general rule, diesels do generally cost more, regardless of age.

As an example at toyota, the base service costs

Rav4 petrol: $295
Rav4 petrol 2019+: $340
Rav4 diesel (no dpf): $365
Rav4 diesel (dpf): $435

https://www.toyota.co.nz/globalassets/servicing/toyota_service_menu_2022_replaced_9657_.pdf

On Repairs

Back in the 80's (Learnt to drive in one of the below. 2.8L non turbo), diesel engines were super simple, were built really heavy, and had relatively few things to go wrong. However they were also really slow, loud and smokey.

Things like common rail high pressure injection, turbochargers etc, have made modern diesel nicer to live with, but if those things fail, you are up for a big repair bill.

In 2009, in the UK, it became mandatory to have DPF's fitted, which are a whole new can of worms. Need regular highway running (a 20+ min run once a week), to stop these from clogging (but some cars can regenerate while stationary). This adds further bits that can pose issues.

martyyn:

rb99:

I'm talking 2nd(+) hand, maybe mid 2010's, 100,000ish k's, $10,000ish, small and economical.

The OP is considering an older diesel so comments about how expensive new diesel vehicles can be to service are out of context.

Mid 2010's diesel's typically get all the modern diesel bits, high pressure common rail injection, turbo, dpf etc.

My quick google search indicates that a 2015 demio gets a dpf.

Scott3

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#3040858 23-Feb-2023 12:58

To add some historical context to this discussion, NZ's fuel tax policy, where RUC is charged on diesel cars per KM, and on petrol car's per Liter has for many decades made owning small diesel's less attractive, and larger diesel (especially if they are going to tow a lot) more attractive).

Even when small diesels were all the rage in europe, they sold poorly here. Even if something like a diesel VW polo or a Diesel Suzuki swift was a nicer drive than the petrol version, the diesel costs both more to build / buy new, and more to run in NZ, so there were few takers.

So essentially NZ tax policy killed small diesel here. Turns out we dodged a bullet, when we found out that diesel vehicles emmit a heap more local air quality impacting substances in the real world than they do on test, and many european cities started having major air quality issues.

As time has passed, vehicle efficiency has improved, and as such change over threshold where diesel is worth will has got bigger and bigger. These days it is pretty much only utes, larger van's, and upper large SUV's (prado, fortuner etc). Used to be that diesel made sense on medium suv't like the outlander for those doing large distances, but not any more.

At the smaller end of the spectrum modern hybrids have got so effichent, they get a comically good deal on road tax. A yaris hybrid using 3.6L per 100km will be paying around half the road tax of a Demio Diesel. This is the same factor that pritty much means the government has to keep extending the RUC exemption on EV's. Because if they put it on in the current form, a leaf would be paying around double the RUC's that a yaris hybrid would... Would pritty much kill the economics for cheaper EV's overnight (like it did for small deisel's decades back).

Then you add the post pandemic, post Ukraine invasion stuff - Refining shortage, war etc. The price of diesel has shot up heaps. (much more than petrol). This is unlikly to be long term, but sure makes diesel cars less attractive today.

The mid 2010's smaller car market in NZ is dominated by used import's from japan. Japan doesn't like diesel or manual's a lot, so the vast majority of used imports will be petrol (or petrol hybrid) auto's.

Top three sellers in japan in 2015:

Toyota Aqua (hybrid only): 216,000

Toyota Prius (hybrid only): 127,000

Honda Fit (petrol or hybrid): 109,000

Should note most of these pick up a $1000 odd subsidy for being low emissions too.

This means that smaller diesel cars are relatively rare in NZ.

lxsw20

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#3040860 23-Feb-2023 13:00

I don't know what the smaller Mazda diesels is like, but the 2.2 Skyactive from that period is not something I'd ever consider again (I owned an Axela 2.2).

They go well, but they love to carbon up, block the oil galleries, starve themselves of lubrication and die spectacularly.

You'll find the CX-5 diesels are much cheaper than the petrol ones, that is one of the reasons why.

Scott3

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#3040862 23-Feb-2023 13:05

rb99:

Interesting info. Thanks people.

Yes, was thinking of a small diesel (Mazda Demio / 2 actually), well, pretty much entirely from just checking out their much better torque figures, but have rapidly gone off the idea now.

Am also look at Aqua (thanks for the push button start hint btw), Prius, Honda Fit / Jazz. Have a bit of a bias in their favour, though not too fond of the 3rd (?) gen, the one before the latest one.

Prius = decent bit of space and still apparently economical for the size. Aqua, obviously similar but small (but probably big enough for mostly runabout duties). Both not too tiyy engines so hopefully not to lethargic. Jazz/Fit, I like, but prefer the version with the 1500 engine plus battery, bit thin on the ground.

On prius vs aqua / Prius C. Really comes down to if you want a smaller car, or a slightly larger one.

They get basically the same fuel economy (I think the prius has a tiny edge on paper).

The third gen prius is without doubt a better car. It's toyota's eco flagship. Bigger engine and more powerful drivetrain than the aqua, more space, and is available in quite high trim configurations.

But like for like (mileage / age etc), it costs quite a bit more.

Aqua is quite clearly built to be cheap, but it does excel at what it is. Must say, when I had one as a rental, I was impressed with the amount of passenger / cargo space there was for such a small car. Power was fine, but the drivetrain in noisy (but I am spoiled having a Lexus, and a pure EV in the household).

Can't really comment on the honda.

MikeAqua

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#3040889 23-Feb-2023 14:43

A quick look on Trademe and there are half a dozen diesel corollas for sale.

I once had a ~1990s diesel corolla station wagon as a courtesy car. It was a really neat little car. Used like 5.5L/100km, driving it like I stole it. Not a slow as you'd think with a manual gearbox. It's probably older than you want, but there is one there for $3k!

If you're at all handy you can service your own diesel vehicle. It's mostly changing the oil and filters and checking the brakes. As soon as my pajero is out of warranty, the mechanic won't see me for dust!

Mike

rb99

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#3040902 23-Feb-2023 15:50

More interesting info. Thanks for that.

Am going to get something, but don't know what. Should be between those Prius / Aqua / Fit trio and their variations. Pity most options are at least 100kms away. Not that far I guess though.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

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