Any thoughts on small cars with diesels

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rb99

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#303612 22-Feb-2023 14:58

Yet another thread from me about something that'll probably never happen, but any thoughts regarding the above ?

I'm talking 2nd(+) hand, maybe mid 2010's, 100,000ish k's, $10,000ish, small and economical.

Good or bad in general ? And about these RUC's, I've googled, but still not sure how they work. $76 per 1000km, or 7.60 per 100km. Diesel is about $2.20/litre I believe, so say 5l/100km economy, think thats about $11 for the diesel plus $7.60 RUC or $18.60 per 100KM ? Does that sound right ?

Maybe I'll go for a small hybrid instead.

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rb99

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#3040561 22-Feb-2023 15:02

I love a diesel, but for a small passenger car it doesn't make sense anymore. Also, if you have a DPF & do mostly urban driving, that's asking for trouble too.

A 1.8l petrol corolla would do less than 7L/100km most of the time - that would be cheaper to run than your hypothetical diesel, cheaper servicing and no emissions stuff to worry about.

BlueShift

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#3040563 22-Feb-2023 15:05

For a while, small diesels were cheaper to run than equivalent petrol ones. However, the price of diesel has risen faster than the price of petrol for reasons unknown to me. Now a litre of diesel costs only slightly less than a litre of 91 and then you have to pay RUC on top (currently about $250 for 5000km).

Environmentally I'm not sure, a well tuned diesel doesn't emit much more than a petrol engine, although higher sulphur I think. But, diesel engines become untuned more quickly and then emit stinking black clouds. The servicing on diesel engines is dearer than petrol too.

That said, I'll sell you my 2011 Hyundai IX35 2l diesel for under $10K if you're keen 😁

hsvhel

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#3040566 22-Feb-2023 15:08

They had a place in the market once.

THose days are long gone, it's costly to both run and maintain copared to petrol

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#3040570 22-Feb-2023 15:16

Doesn't make financial sense in New Zealand. More expensive to buy up front, more expensive to service and since they use so little fuel you don't recover those extra costs through cheaper fuel once you layer on top the RUC. They start to make sense in a full size SUV or dual cab ute but anything smaller than that you never really break even.

Which is a pity as they are great to drive, especially if you cover long distances.

richms

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#3040572 22-Feb-2023 15:17

Diesel on cars has never really made sense here with the high RUC applied to them. It's just comically bad now. It was barely ok on things like utes, 4x4 and SUVs but even now people I know who have had them in the past are going petrol on new ones. Servicing costs on modern diesels are absurd and it seems they love to go into crippled mode and demand a service at the drop of a hat and need some expensive part to be replaced.

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#3040576 22-Feb-2023 15:22

rb99:

Yet another thread from me about something that'll probably never happen, but any thoughts regarding the above ?

I'm talking 2nd(+) hand, maybe mid 2010's, 100,000ish k's, $10,000ish, small and economical.

Good or bad in general ? And about these RUC's, I've googled, but still not sure how they work. $76 per 1000km, or 7.60 per 100km. Diesel is about $2.20/litre I believe, so say 5l/100km economy, think thats about $11 for the diesel plus $7.60 RUC or $18.60 per 100KM ? Does that sound right ?

Maybe I'll go for a small hybrid instead.

Your maths is correct (except RUC's are currently discounted by 36%, however that is temporary only due to the war in Ukraine so best not to factor into your decision).

Your assessment is correct too. The combination of current high diesel prices, and RUC's, make small diesel a poor financial decision.

For comparison, a Prius C / aqua would get around 4L/100km of 91RON at say $2.70/L. Works out to $10.8 /100km. Massively lower than the cost of running a diesel, and you don't need to pay for expensive diesel Rego, or maintenance either.

Diesel only makes sense for large vehicles these days. Ranger, Hilux, Transit, Hiace, Landcruiser.

It has been this way for some time. Pritty much all the brands have given up, or never tried to sell small diesel's in NZ (Vw Polo, Suzuki swift etc)

If you do get an aqua, make sure it is a push button start one. The turn key start ones don't have an immobilizer, so are very popular with thieves.

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#3040581 22-Feb-2023 15:34

Currently driving a Peugeot 407 2.0 Diesel, do about 22,000km a year open road driving. I get about 5.5L/100km. Once the price of diesel was over $1.80 a litre, it started to become cheaper to do the same driving in the petrol SUV we own, even taking into account the reductions in excise tax and RUC.

The pug will be replaced with an Aqua or similar in the next 6 months or so.

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#3040582 22-Feb-2023 15:39

We had a 2008 BMW 320d manual for a few years. Was one of the best cars I've ever had and I really miss it. The torque and manual gearbox along with the m-sport suspension made it an absolutely brilliant car to drive.

It saved us a fortune when we were doing 50k kms annually and being manual was great for the kids to learn in. Regular oil changes kept it in tip top condition (I don't understand the idea they are expensive to service) and I don't remember spending anything on it other than oil, filters and wiper blades.

But as other have said, the cost of diesel has more than doubled in recent years and we we're doing long, hot running. If you aren't able to get it up to a good temperature and run for an hour at least once a month then you will run into issues somewhere down the line with the DPF or inlet manifold.

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#3040583 22-Feb-2023 15:41

Common rail + DPF = expensive fuel filters, expensive oil & expensive if it goes wrong. It's not a big difference with normal servicing, but does add up over time.

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#3040593 22-Feb-2023 16:13

martyyn:

We had a 2008 BMW 320d manual for a few years....

(I don't understand the idea they are expensive to service) and I don't remember spending anything on it other than oil, filters and wiper blades.

A diesel from 2008 and a modern common rail diesel with a DPF and Ad-Blue designed to meet strict Euro 6 emissions are entirely different beasts. When things go wrong in a modern diesel the price tag starts in the thousands and goes up exponentially. Diesels from the mid 2000's were as tough as old boots and would go on forever. I got in a BMW 520D taxi in Munich that had 420K kms on the clock and it drove like a brand new one.

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#3040594 22-Feb-2023 16:30

martyyn:

(I don't understand the idea they are expensive to service)

Because its an old one without all the stuff required to meet ever tightning emissions requirements.

New ones will have expensive filters go that light up the light and send it into slow mode till you spend $2000+ on fixing it.

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rb99

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#3040604 22-Feb-2023 16:56

Interesting info. Thanks people.

Yes, was thinking of a small diesel (Mazda Demio / 2 actually), well, pretty much entirely from just checking out their much better torque figures, but have rapidly gone off the idea now.

Am also look at Aqua (thanks for the push button start hint btw), Prius, Honda Fit / Jazz. Have a bit of a bias in their favour, though not too fond of the 3rd (?) gen, the one before the latest one.

Prius = decent bit of space and still apparently economical for the size. Aqua, obviously similar but small (but probably big enough for mostly runabout duties). Both not too tiyy engines so hopefully not to lethargic. Jazz/Fit, I like, but prefer the version with the 1500 engine plus battery, bit thin on the ground.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

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#3040619 22-Feb-2023 19:16

it all depends on the price obviously

i saved a $1 reserve on my watchlist.

a 2 year old BMW X2 diesel with 2000km or thereabouts. more torque and more power than most utes, heated seats, leather, basically new.

sold for $26k

!!!!! i keep telling myself if i had bidded i wouldn't have gotten it for that price, someone got a good deal.

so it depends, i wouldn't mind being the buyer of that car.

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#3040623 22-Feb-2023 19:37

Always happens to other people...

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

MikeAqua

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#3040749 23-Feb-2023 08:57

RUC kills it. The smallest class is something like 3,500kg, so you're paying as if you're a small truck.

DPF is manageable. Just drive it a 100km/h once each week. Most people can manage that.

Mike

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