Buying a second hand car privately

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mattwnz

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#3148184 16-Oct-2023 15:42

richms:

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They will give you a long list of all the tears in the seats and marks on the dashboard and neglect to even look at the exhaust being held on with hopes, prayers and a piece of wire coathanger that a friend bought.

That sounds like many prepurchase house inspections where they look at superficial things like missing door stops etc. I would suggest the OP looks up the youtube channel car wizard, which gives an idea of what to look for and what brands to avoid.

frankv

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#3148189 16-Oct-2023 15:50

What other people have said above, plus

I nearly always buy privately. What I'm looking for is as much about whether the car is cared for or not. I'm not looking for a perfect car (especially if it's got some Ks and years on it), but REALLY REALLY trying to avoid a lemon. Most people (except used car salesmen) are straight up and honest about selling you their car. Occasionally you know it's a good car as soon as you see it. More often, there's some uncertainty and you make a judgement call.

Look at the car... if it's been looked after, you can tell. Chips, scratches, dents, kerbed wheels, worn-out wiper blades don't mean anything in themselves, but if there's a lot...
Look in the glovebox and boot and above the sun-visors for any crap... might also give you a clue about whether it's cared for or not.
Likewise the interior and roof lining and seats.
Steering pulling left or right (a little to the left is normal) and/or uneven wear on the tyres
Check the spare
Check the WoF, rego, and also the service sticker. Always buy a car with a current WoF.
Make sure all the electrics work.
Check carjam for any period where there's little increase in mileage, and also for any recent rapid change(s) of ownership
Ask lots of questions about recent history, and be businesslike and polite rather than nice & friendly. If you don't ask, they don't have to tell you. If you do ask, they have to answer honestly. Ask about any repairs, accidents, receipts, fuel economy, what they've used it for, etc. As much as anything else, you're trying to assess the honesty of the person selling.

Deal-breakers:

Look at the inside the oil cap, if there's any white sludge, it's got a cracked head or similar, walk away.
Before test-driving, look at the radiator water (if it's not hot), any oiliness, same thing.
If you can, run the engine with the radiator cap off. Give it a rev up... any bubbles, same thing.
Run your finger round inside the exhaust. Sootiness is ok, oiliness isn't... piston rings or cracked head
Look at the dipstick. If the oil is low, they don't care. Likewise if it's black and/or it's overdue for a service.
Look at the radiator overflow cup... if it's low or high, it may be using water. Likewise if it's not blue or orange.
Smell... any mustiness at all, walk away. The windscreen or door seals or boot lid or something leaks. If the windscreen leaks onto the electronics...
Electric window/doorlocking/mirror issues... possibly wiring breaking down
Dodgy person selling... any hint of dodginess (e.g. they want folding cash, not paid to a bank account, won't meet you at their home), forget it.
Test driving
- Any problems changing gear, jumping out of gear
- Clunking noises going round corners = stuffed CV joints
- Any hesitation in acceleration
- Any shimmying or vibration
- Brakes pulling left or right, or weak
- Check afterwards again for oil as above
- Turn the radio off so you can listen to the engine
- Engine check light?

Some-one I know listens to the radio presets, and swears they get good cars from people who listen to classical music. lol

If you're really keen to buy, take a mate along to play devil's advocate.

[Edit]

You're not getting a warranty, so the price should be hundreds of dollars lower than a dealer's price for the equivalent car. Nevertheless, the seller isn't allowed to mislead you... if they've lied or hidden some problem, you can go to the Disputes Tribunal. That doesn't apply if you buy at an auction, so you should pay a much lower price there.

Haggle on the price... you should be able to get $500-$1000 off

When you do buy, call your insurance company and get it covered immediately.

mattwnz

20155 posts

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#3148192 16-Oct-2023 15:59

TBH, one of the only brands of second hand car I would buy is a Toyota, something like a RAV 4. and probably made in Japan. Mazda maybe second. Going cheap may be a cost saving initially, but the repairs costs could be massive. So it can be false economy. Also I would buy a car that has been garaged over it's life , rather than one that hasn't, because as UV and water over time can do a lot of hidden damage. I have seen doors witha lot of water in the bottom after drain holes blocked, and that then causes rust. As well as visible uv damage to rubber seals and plastics.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#3148288 17-Oct-2023 00:31

Lizard1977:

It's a Kia Rio 2007 manual CVVT with about 145K on the clock. I took it out at lunch and it drives pretty well. I looked for all the things I could think of, and didn't spot any major red flags. The timing belt was serviced around 90K, which means it will be due in about 30K, and for the price of the car that might not be cost-effective given other things may start to go wrong. But as a short-term "bridging" car, it might be okay.

Two brand new tyres on the front, and good tread all round. No evidence of leaking in the engine bay (and no telltale evidence of recent cleaning to hide the fact). The electric window control on the front passenger side doesn't work, but it does from the driver's control panel. Wheel alignment might be slightly tracking to the left, and a small amount of play in the steering, but nothing too alarming. I've driven much worse before.

Transmission is good, clutch is responsive and brakes are too. Full-sized spare in the boot with a new tyre there too.

Seller bought it for his son to learn to drive a manual. They've had it a couple of months but selling it because he wants to get an auto.

Kia is a stablemate of Hyundai - same factory, same engines, same build quality. I've had a few Hyundais - the most recent of which I just sold last week.

I've always found Hyundais super reliable, frugal on fuel and fairly reasonable for service/parts costs. You don't pay the "Toyota tax" on them so you will find Hyundais/Kias cheaper than say a Corolla of a similar age, mileage and condition. But in my opinion their small cars are every bit as reliable (from the mid 2000's onward anyway).

With regard to the electric window control on the door that's not working, I had the exact same thing on my wife's 2013 Hyundai Accent. The switches fill up with gunk - dust, fibres, stray soft drink & crumbs etc and the electrical contacts stop working. I was quoted $400 to replace the 4 way driver's window switch assembly, but in the end I watched a Youtube video, removed the switch assembly from the door, dissected the switch and gave the contacts a good clean with nail polish remover on a cotton bud. Worked like a charm and really not a hard job. Having said that, you should at least price the switch up with Kia NZ and then tell the seller that a switch assembly is going to cost x dollars and try to get some money off the price (and then go the DIY contact cleaning route). Heck even spraying some contact cleaner directly into the switch and then rocking it back and forth 40 or 50 times will likely fix it short term.

The 2005 Getz I just sold for $3k had 180,000kms on it, so the price being asked for the Kia Rio your friend is looking at seems about right to me. I sold the Getz with a new engine mount, cambelt, water pump and all new drive belts (alternator, air con, power steering) plus a fresh WOF. I am lucky that I have enough skill to have done all that work myself - it was less than $300 in parts but would have been around $1500 to pay someone - money I never would have got back.

Would I buy a 2007 Kia Rio without an inspection? Most likely if it looks, sounds & feels good (I bought my Getz sight unseen on a $1 reserve dealer trade-in auction - I got lucky!). Would I buy a European or American car without a mechanical inspection? Almost certainly not!

alasta

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#3148312 17-Oct-2023 07:49

I owned a Kia Rio from 2012 to 2015 and it was a good car for the price, but any second hand car will cause problems if it's crash/flood damaged or if it hasn't been serviced according to the manufacturer's schedule.

BlakJak

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#3148357 17-Oct-2023 10:42

mattwnz:

TBH, one of the only brands of second hand car I would buy is a Toyota, something like a RAV 4. and probably made in Japan. Mazda maybe second. Going cheap may be a cost saving initially, but the repairs costs could be massive. So it can be false economy. Also I would buy a car that has been garaged over it's life , rather than one that hasn't, because as UV and water over time can do a lot of hidden damage. I have seen doors witha lot of water in the bottom after drain holes blocked, and that then causes rust. As well as visible uv damage to rubber seals and plastics.

The car that I just sold, only spent a small portion of its 12 years with me in a Garage, and was sold at 210,000kms for $2000.

When you're buying a car sub $5K the implicit expectation is that when the keep-it-on-the-road repair costs get too high, you write it off, instead of repairing it (or, you wear the risk of investment lost). I spent $2500 keeping my car on the road 6 months ago, and then sold it for less - arguably a loss. The amount of money worth spending on a repair is something you have to have in the back of your mind around the value of a vehicle and your willingness to spend.

Or to put it another way, the less you spend the less it's worth doing PPI's and the more you are gambling.

No signature to see here, move along...

BlakJak

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#3148415 17-Oct-2023 13:30

richms:

BlakJak: Curious about why not AA?

They will give you a long list of all the tears in the seats and marks on the dashboard and neglect to even look at the exhaust being held on with hopes, prayers and a piece of wire coathanger that a friend bought.

FWIW I had a car AA inspected recently and the response felt honest. We opted not to buy so I can't be more specific than that...

... a single historic experience is probably not a reason to judge their entire service however.

No signature to see here, move along...

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Lizard1977

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#3148420 17-Oct-2023 13:51

BlakJak:

The car that I just sold, only spent a small portion of its 12 years with me in a Garage, and was sold at 210,000kms for $2000.

When you're buying a car sub $5K the implicit expectation is that when the keep-it-on-the-road repair costs get too high, you write it off, instead of repairing it (or, you wear the risk of investment lost). I spent $2500 keeping my car on the road 6 months ago, and then sold it for less - arguably a loss. The amount of money worth spending on a repair is something you have to have in the back of your mind around the value of a vehicle and your willingness to spend.

Or to put it another way, the less you spend the less it's worth doing PPI's and the more you are gambling.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

In this particular case, it sounds like my friend has decided not to go ahead with the Kia Rio. Personally, I thought it wasn't a bad choice but she is concerned about the potential costs to maintain it relative to its purchase price e.g. servicing the timing belts in about 30K kms. I think this is going to be an issue for any car in this kind of price range though, but ultimately it's her choice.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#3148590 17-Oct-2023 23:02

Lizard1977:

Thanks everyone for the advice.

In this particular case, it sounds like my friend has decided not to go ahead with the Kia Rio. Personally, I thought it wasn't a bad choice but she is concerned about the potential costs to maintain it relative to its purchase price e.g. servicing the timing belts in about 30K kms. I think this is going to be an issue for any car in this kind of price range though, but ultimately it's her choice.

It's a shame to dismiss a potentially reliable car just because the timing belt is due in 30k kms. Realistically for the average driver that's 2 years away. $20 a week into a separate bank account would have that covered with enough left over for a couple of new tyres etc when required.

She could consider a mid 2000's Corolla - those have a timing chain rather than a belt, however the VVT-i engines do not forgive neglect and lack of servicing, and timing chains can have their own issues due to late/infrequent servicing. A solid service history is a must.

And then there's that Toyota tax I mentioned earlier - sure you can pick up a 15 year old Corolla for $3-4k but it will have 300,000kms+ on the clock and around 7-10 owners by now. But a good condition sub 100,000km with full service history and very few owners will command a premium of up to $10k.

This YouTube video from Redriven Australia provides unbiased recommendations for reliable second hand small cars under $5k - and yes the Kia Rio your friend looked at made their top 5 list....

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