Is my friend still legally able to drive his car?

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Uber Geek

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#3392095 8-Jul-2025 17:21

OldGeek: That seems nonsense to me. How can a medical professional judge whether a patient is likely to disobey their instruction not to drive?

It is very obvious when the patient tells the doctor of exactly that intention.

gzt

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#3392096 8-Jul-2025 17:33

OldGeek: Thanks for the responses. He is covered by insurance in that he cannot find any clause that invalidates cover because of a known medical condition.

Not being able to find a clause does not mean he has insurance cover in that event. I'd be very surprised if he has cover when advised not to drive by a medical professional. Here's AA Insurance saying 'no' for example:

https://www.aainsurance.co.nz/help/article/360019836592-Am-I-covered-to-drive-if-I-have-a-medical-condition-or-recently-had-surgery

After all that, Insurance companies refer to innumerable policy documents including when actually making a claim where they will ask all kinds of additional questions, and when investigating a claim as they do when triggered for one reason or another.

gzt

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#3392097 8-Jul-2025 17:40

Ultimately if he wants to drive the best thing is to ask his doctor or specialist when he will be clear to do that if there are no other events and no additional diagnostic concerns. If he asks for a clear answer from his doctor and specialist I'm sure he will get one. The times can be surprisingly short for some things.

Handle9

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#3392100 8-Jul-2025 17:50

OldGeek:

Thanks for the responses.

He is covered by insurance in that he cannot find any clause that invalidates cover because of a known medical condition. You are not covered if WOF, Rego or drivers licence has expired or been cancelled - so that does not apply.

He is hoping that he can move into town but this is dependent on reasonable and affordable rental options - which are rare. When he moves he will no longer drive - probably buy a mobility scooter. He is aware of the need for licence renewal at 80 - but that is secondary to his needs now and he is hoping to have moved by then.

Mobility transport operators do exist but only in urban areas because of subsidy constraints.

There are no second-opinion medical options. His GP echos what the specialist says and access to private medical facilities is neither practical (too far away) or affordable.

Pretty much all insurance policies require you to disclose to the insurer any material change in risk. They also will require you to act in a manner that is reasonable and not grossly irresponsible.

The courts will generally come down on the side of what would a reasonable person consider grossly irresponsible. Driving when forbidden by a medical professional would be considered by most reasonable people to be grossly irresponsible.

Trying to play bush lawyer with an insurer is fools gold.

Handle9

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#3392103 8-Jul-2025 17:58

Handsomedan:

So the question isn't "Can you drive?" but "Should you drive?"

Absolutely this. I consider encouraging someone to drive after they have been advised not to by a doctor to be the same as encouraging someone to drive because they’ve “only had 6 beers and you’ll be fine.”

OldGeek

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#3392130 8-Jul-2025 20:01

gzt: Ultimately if he wants to drive the best thing is to ask his doctor or specialist when he will be clear to do that if there are no other events and no additional diagnostic concerns. If he asks for a clear answer from his doctor and specialist I'm sure he will get one. The times can be surprisingly short for some things.

Neither his specialist or GP would commit to an end-point.

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#3392132 8-Jul-2025 20:08

Handle9:

Handsomedan:

So the question isn't "Can you drive?" but "Should you drive?"

Absolutely this. I consider encouraging someone to drive after they have been advised not to by a doctor to be the same as encouraging someone to drive because they’ve “only had 6 beers and you’ll be fine.”

OK - so theoretically he starves because any trip to the supermrket is dependent on the generosity of others until he can move into town. His (nearby) family have not offered to help, in the belief that neighbours and friends will help. He is totally frustrated at his dependence on others when assistance cannot be relied on. No-one is encouraging him to drive.

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#3392134 8-Jul-2025 20:10

if a doctor says you’re not fit to drive (like after a seizure), you legally must stop driving - even if NZTA hasn’t cancelled your licence.

Driving against medical advice can void your insurance and lead to criminal charges. To drive again, your friend needs medical clearance (via a GP or neurologist) and possibly a form submitted to NZTA. Until then, he’s not legally allowed to drive

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#3392135 8-Jul-2025 20:10

gzt:
OldGeek: That seems nonsense to me. How can a medical professional judge whether a patient is likely to disobey their instruction not to drive?

It is very obvious when the patient tells the doctor of exactly that intention.

He has not said this at all to either his specialist or GP.

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#3392137 8-Jul-2025 20:12

Delorean:

if a doctor says you’re not fit to drive (like after a seizure), you legally must stop driving - even if NZTA hasn’t cancelled your licence.

Driving against medical advice can void your insurance and lead to criminal charges. To drive again, your friend needs medical clearance (via a GP or neurologist) and possibly a form submitted to NZTA. Until then, he’s not legally allowed to drive

A reputable cite is what I am looking for.

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Handle9

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#3392142 8-Jul-2025 20:26

OldGeek:

Handle9:

Absolutely this. I consider encouraging someone to drive after they have been advised not to by a doctor to be the same as encouraging someone to drive because they’ve “only had 6 beers and you’ll be fine.”

OK - so theoretically he starves because any trip to the supermrket is dependent on the generosity of others until he can move into town. His (nearby) family have not offered to help, in the belief that neighbours and friends will help. He is totally frustrated at his dependence on others when assistance cannot be relied on. No-one is encouraging him to drive.

The theoretical scenario that is far more likely is that your friend has a seizure, crosses the centre line and kills a family in a people mover.

It’s a very black and white scenario - your friend has medical advice not to drive. Don’t drive.

I fully understand the frustration they must feel but that’s doesn’t remove their obligations to other road users.

OldGeek

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#3392150 8-Jul-2025 21:04

Handle9:

The theoretical scenario that is far more likely is that your friend has a seizure, crosses the centre line and kills a family in a people mover.

It’s a very black and white scenario - your friend has medical advice not to drive. Don’t drive.

I fully understand the frustration they must feel but that’s doesn’t remove their obligations to other road users.

The original intent on posting was to try and clarify legal status.

The evidence points not to a reasoned medical diagnosis but to a rigid process that assumes a Focal Seizure occurred despite no direct supporting evidence (of MRI scans taken within hours and a second within a week, both showing no abnormality). There is less risk of such a seizure now than there was before it occurred because of radical lifestyle changes that have been made - but this is ignored by medical professional in pronouncing a driving ban. In rural NZ there is zero opportunity in general to get a second opinion from a reputable medical specialist unless you have the hundreds of dollars to pay for it and the hours of travel to the nearest likely city where said specialist practices.

Having said that, my friend has indeed been left high and dry by a distinct lack of help from his family who live in town. I dont know them so I cannot understand what is at play here. My friend does get help from a nearby neighbour that he knows but there are no other neighbours that he knows in this rural location other than me, and other friends in town 11km away.

Given that the responses are not addressing the legal issue, I am happy for this thread to be locked and do not intend to respond further.

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jonherries

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#3392167 8-Jul-2025 22:11

In my experience, there is normally a review/stand down period where no seizure for x time means the person can resume driving. Someone said further up 6-12 months which seems reasonable.

If I was him I would ask the GP straight up, how long without another seizure would he be able to drive. There are other situations, eg.

post stroke, heart attack, surgery, hip replacement, elective caesarian where you have a stand down period and this is no different (people with epilepsy have this situation too).

What might be interesting is that your friend may have a bunch of other reasons he shouldn’t be driving (including some he may not have told you) and it turns out the GP is using this as the definitive one and is using the Neurologists opinion to back their opinion.

For the reasons you raise, people don't like to stop driving and often find some reason to keep at it when they shouldn’t, plus it can be hard for the GP who realises they will lose independence to tell them to stop. This is very common scenario, and often an OT will do a cognitive assessment to help (private paid service).

Jon

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#3392178 8-Jul-2025 22:42

I went through this 20 years ago. The doctors don't have any option. A seizure occurred so you can't drive until 12 months seizure free. I had 2 neurologists disagreeing on the exact cause but neither were prepared to reduce the stand down period. Even though the new guidelines include a 6 month option this is probably going to be rarely applied. When I got sick of walking I bought a bicycle and lost 14kg.

snj

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#3392180 8-Jul-2025 22:48

OldGeek:

The original intent on posting was to try and clarify legal status.

Page 11 of https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/medical-aspects/Medical-aspects-of-fitness-to-drive-a-guide-for-health-practitioners.pdf (which is actually for Medical Practicioners) covers the legal aspects:

Responsibilities of drivers (patients)
Legal responsibilities
» [...]
» Stop driving when medically suspended or revoked, or when advised by a health practitioner that they’re unfit to drive

So basically, it's instances like your friend, and for instance if you're ever told after surgery not to drive for X weeks. Weird thing is, I can't actually see the bit in actual legislation, but the Land Transport stuff is a mess of Primary & Secondary legislation/rules and what not. Given that NZTA are explicitly saying it there, without asking a lawyer I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're talking about.

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