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OldGeek

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#320115 8-Jul-2025 13:09
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I am hoping that there may be some GZers who can offer advice on legalities and practicalities for a dilemma faced by my 79-year-old friend.

 

He recently suffered what was eventually diagnosed as a Neural Seizure while in a local coffee shop.  The symptoms were confusion and indecisiveness - although I am relying on his later recollection rather than eye-witness reports.  He has been told he must not drive because of the risk of another seizure while driving, however his driving licence has not been cancelled or endorsed in any way.  I would expect that the NZTA would have provision to do this if medical professionals deem it necessary.  Two MRI scans have been done with no abnormalities detected.

 

My friend lives alone in a rented rural home.  He did have a flatmate but this is no longer the case.  There is no public transport.  There are local taxi services but they are focussed entirely on airport bookings rather than conventional point-to-point transport. There is no ride-share (ie Uber) available.  He lives beyond the boundaries that local supermarkets deliver to so that is not an option and the same applies to prescription deliveries.  He has a working neighbour within 200 metres, but there are limits on depending on them to get to a supermarket or anything else in the nearby town (11kms away).  He is therefore housebound.  He has children in the region but they both work full-time and have offered no assistance at all.  We usually meet at a local pub twice a week and depending on me and other mates to get around is not good.  He is skipping pub visits partly because of this and partly to conserve spending.

 

Since he had the seizure he has totally changed his lifestyle.  He was working part-time as doing house inspections.  At the time of the seizure he had done 4 inspections in the previous 5 days, in locations as far as 2 hours drive from where he lives.  This business is now closed.  He is looking to move into town but is very constrained by rental availability and affordability.  When the move is completed he plans to buy a mobility scooter and will then be completely independent again.  The problem is the interim period, which will probably be many months.  

 

He feels better than ever and is totally frustrated that a seizure like this can have such a catastrophic effect.  He acknowledges the risk of having a seizure while driving but feels that the risk of a repeat is very low and that all he wants to do is to be able to drive no further than 20km at a time.

 

Everything points to the fact that when the Neural Surgeon said he could not drive, that this is an advisory rather than compulsory action - that there is no legal obligation.  Until he is able to move, he can drive to town and back perhaps 3 times a week.

 

If anyone has any knowledge on his legal driving status I would appreciate feedback.  The driving risks are well know and acknowledged so no feedback on that is being sought (my friend has been roundly abused by his family and some other friends for driving into town once).





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  #3391862 8-Jul-2025 13:13
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The other issue I would consider is insurance cover for his car -- if the insurance company are confident in that they have reasonable grounds that e.g. 'he should have known he shouldn't be driving' they may well decline cover if an accident happens.




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  #3391864 8-Jul-2025 13:16
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if it's advisory rather than compulsory then legally i would have thought he'd be ok to drive

 

the only problem is if he has another seizure he could kill someone

 

i suggest he gets a second opinion not for the legal bit but whether he at risk of killing someone


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  #3391867 8-Jul-2025 13:28
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Advisory sounds like the various medications with warnings on them to avoid driving and operating machinery etc. it means you have been advised - don't.

A doctor's advisory means the same thing - don't.



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  #3391869 8-Jul-2025 13:36
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He recently suffered what was eventually diagnosed as a Neural Seizure while in a local coffee shop. The symptoms were confusion and indecisiveness - although I am relying on his later recollection rather than eye-witness reports.

Off topic but a friend of mine had a couple of similar events. Eventually diagnosed as a rare form of stroke dementia after a few more events one involving a fall. In theory if I remember correctly it's the recoverable kind. Nevertheless, at 70 he's now in a retirement facility where he's guaranteed a soft landing in most of the facility and pretty good support and rehabilitation. The whole thing was difficult to accept both for himself and his friends.

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  #3391871 8-Jul-2025 13:42
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TBH:  If he thinks its hard now, wait until his 80th Birthday....

 

You raise a pile of reasons why its difficult for him to survive without a license, and then posit that he is OK to keep driving as nothing "official" has been endorsed against his license....

 

Irrespective of whether he decides to drive against medical advice in the interim, at his 80th Birthday HE WILL REQUIRE A MEDICAL CERTIFICATE to renew his license, 

 

Given the existing medical advice he has, he needs to start planning now for when his license expires and is unable to be renewed....

 

"What you need to take

 

  • A medical certificate issued within the last 60 days "

https://nzta.govt.nz/driver-licences/renewing-replacing-and-updating/renewing-for-seniors/

 

 


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  #3391872 8-Jul-2025 13:44
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For transport it's worth checking the total mobility scheme
It is possible there is some lesser known provider in his area:

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/total-mobility-scheme/total-mobility.html

The shuttle services are probably not registered for mobility card. I'd say it's worth talking to them anyway. Winter there is always less work and it might suit them for a couple of months until things pick up. A few places have Rotary Club and Red Cross etc volunteers who help our for people in your friend"s position.

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  #3391874 8-Jul-2025 13:51
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My father (at the ripe old age of 80-odd) took himself off the road after being advised by his doctor that his various ailments would make driving potentially hazardous. 

 

He had to renew his licence shortly after, so went in and confessed that the doc had advised not to drive. After his "test" he was cleared legally to drive, despite being diagnosed with Macular Degeneration, Parkinsons etc...he was quite literally declared legally blind, yet still able to drive, under the law. 

 

So the question isn't "Can you drive?" but "Should you drive?"

 

 

 

 





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  #3391879 8-Jul-2025 14:08
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NZTA guidelines for doctors is "Medical aspects of fitness to drive a guide for health practitioners"

 

The stand down period for a standard licence seems to be 6 to 12 months free of seizure depending on what the seizure is diagnosed as. If anyone says their doctor said it would be ok to drive to the local shops they're bs-ing.


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  #3391899 8-Jul-2025 14:35
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His GP should be giving him advise about disability support and community medical support. Might be able to get taxis paid but from the sound of it living alone isolated and rural might be pretty risky.

 

Driving sounds too risky and the insurance company has an avenue to get out of paying if he's caused an accident.

 

 


  #3391955 8-Jul-2025 15:13
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My biggest concern would be how would he feel if he had another seizure while driving and killed a young child.


  #3391966 8-Jul-2025 15:26
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NZTA says:

 

A single seizure doesn’t necessarily mean you have epilepsy, but it does mean you will need to stop driving for 12 months. In exceptional circumstances the 12-month stand-down period may be reduced if there is a clearly identified non-recurring cause for the seizure. The 12-month stand-down period can be reviewed in consultation with a neurologist and your health practitioner.

 

I have a feeling the above is backed up by legislation somewhere and you are required to not drive even if your license hasn't been formally revoked, but cannot back this up. 

 

 

 

 

 

It looks like health workers are only required to notify NZTA if they think the person will continue to drive against instructions:

 

Under section 18 of the Land Transport Act 1998 you must notify us if you believe that the mental or physical condition of a licence holder means that in the interest of public safety they should not be permitted to drive and are likely to continue to do so. This may be through your patient expressing their intention to drive despite instructions not to, or you consider they do not understand your advice. You do not have to prove your patient is driving or will continue to drive.


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  #3391967 8-Jul-2025 15:26
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Thanks for the responses.

 

He is covered by insurance in that he cannot find any clause that invalidates cover because of a known medical condition.  You are not covered if WOF, Rego or drivers licence has expired or been cancelled - so that does not apply.

 

He is hoping that he can move into town but this is dependent on reasonable and affordable rental options - which are rare.  When he moves he will no longer drive - probably buy a mobility scooter.  He is aware of the need for licence renewal at 80 - but that is secondary to his needs now and he is hoping to have moved by then.

 

Mobility transport operators do exist but only in urban areas because of subsidy constraints.

 

There are no second-opinion medical options.  His GP echos what the specialist says and access to private medical facilities is neither practical (too far away) or affordable.





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  #3391973 8-Jul-2025 15:36
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SomeoneSomewhere:

 

 

 

It looks like health workers are only required to notify NZTA if they think the person will continue to drive against instructions:

 

 

That seems nonsense to me.  How can a medical professional judge whether a patient is likely to disobey their instruction not to drive?  Far more rational to require medical practitioners to advise the NZTA if any patient has been told they must not drive.  My friend would then show up with as unlicensed.





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  #3391980 8-Jul-2025 15:39
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OldGeek:

 

 

 

That seems nonsense to me.  How can a medical professional judge whether a patient is likely to disobey their instruction not to drive?  Far more rational to require medical practitioners to advise the NZTA if any patient has been told they must not drive.  My friend would then show up with as unlicensed.

 

 

 

 

Formally revoking a license means you then need to formally re-instate the license after the medical condition has ended (if it does). That's administrative overhead. 

 

 

 

I don't think the law is different between someone being told not to drive for a few days after a concussion or while healing from a broken limb, and someone being told not to drive for a year after a seizure. 

 

 

 

 

There are no second-opinion medical options.  His GP echos what the specialist says and access to private medical facilities is neither practical (too far away) or affordable.

 

Sounds like he's got the second opinion and is looking for a third.


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  #3391982 8-Jul-2025 15:46
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larknz:

 

My biggest concern would be how would he feel if he had another seizure while driving and killed a young child.

 

 

That is why my friend observes the prohibition.

 

He has had just one seizure and it was not while driving.  He is proposing to drive no more than 15km each trip (into town) where a small percentage of any trip will be in an urban area.  The two MRI scans show 100% normal brain function.

 

The total ban on driving is not serious if the patient retains a valid licence.  While the Neural Specialist has told my friend not to drive, there is no record of the NZTA being notified.

 

I also forgot to note that the diagnosis was for a Focal Seizure (affects only part of the brain, not all of it) and he has had a complete change of lifestyle since that one seizure that has significantly reduced his stress levels.





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