Should cyclists pay road taxes ?

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#2730321 17-Jun-2021 17:57

sir1963:

Personal attacks ?

Not cool.

How is that a personal attack?? Yoh want cyclists to pay. The poster suggested a footpath user tax, same thing.

tdgeek

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#2730332 17-Jun-2021 18:04

MikeB4:

1. There are a better alternatives to the current transport methods that will reduce the dependancy on road transport.

2. Provision of safe cycleways will promote the use of cycles as a much needed alternative to get people out of their cars. Remember there were too few Horseless Carriages at the beginning of the 20th century yet the infrastructure to support them was built.

Nice to hear from you, Mike

One day, transport has to change. Public Transport, cycling, walking, car free CBD's has to be the way of the future. EV's are the only vehicles in use, awesome, but thats decades away

Im sure Public Transport, cycling, walking, car free CBD's will cause shivers, but that WILL help climate change and it will help congestion

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#2730336 17-Jun-2021 18:12

antonknee:

sir1963:

Now cyclists want cycleways, for their benefit. So get them to contribute. If cyclists are unwilling to contribute, they can not be that important.

For their benefit, and the benefit of drivers, and the benefit of the planet, and the benefit of the health system and wider society, yes.

Cyclists are not really asking for dedicated billion dollar bridges (to choose a recent example). You’ll recall that what was asked for was a lane on the existing bridge.

Mostly cyclists want safe infrastructure that goes the same places as the infrastructure we’ve already built for cars.

In any case, as you’ve had pointed out multiple times, cyclists do contribute as does everyone else.

To push the point, car congestion means that its not easy to support local business. It becomes an arduous transit issue, arduous/costly parking. Its quite feasible that if these congestors found another side of transport they would find it easier to support businesses

tdgeek

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#2730339 17-Jun-2021 18:16

sir1963:

And no, cyclists do NOT contribute anything extra.

Cyclists often have jobs, they are contributors. If they are retired they were contributors. If they cycle they reduce CAR congestion. Checking Google, the damage caused by cyclists to roads (so kets add RUC) is quite low.... /s

sir1963

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#2730343 17-Jun-2021 18:21

jfanning:

sir1963:

Show me where you pay for cycleways.

Roading - Invercargill City Council (icc.govt.nz)

One of the lines of the ICC Rates is targeting Roading, according to the council the roading assets include footpaths and cycle ways as well as roads. 1 + 1 = I pay for cycle paths.

Population 57,000,

cycleway expenditure $25,000

So about $0.50 per person which is also subsidised by NZTA so would be less than $2 a year for a family of 4.

As opposed to Christchurch that spent $4000 per family of 4.

Would you be happy to have an additional rates increase of $1000 a year ?

tdgeek

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#2730345 17-Jun-2021 18:23

Handsomedan:

Rikkitic:

Why does everyone act like there is a war between cyclists and motorists? Instead of screaming it's all your fault, how about can I help you on your way? The problem really isn't cars or bikes or roads or other transport means. It is mentality and the notion that there is something unreasonable about the other party. Why does it never seem to occur to anyone to just offer to make things easier for the others? Give the cyclists room. Let the motorists past. If everyone does it, things get better. How hard is that?

Can you please stop being so bloody reasonable?

I agree, she should be blocked from this thread which is the I'm not a huge cyclist fan thread... Maybe we need to support cars so they can block the roads and choke our Earth? This Earth has so many battles, and here we are...

sir1963

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#2730348 17-Jun-2021 18:29

tdgeek:

sir1963:

And no, cyclists do NOT contribute anything extra.

Cyclists often have jobs, they are contributors. If they are retired they were contributors. If they cycle they reduce CAR congestion. Checking Google, the damage caused by cyclists to roads (so kets add RUC) is quite low.... /s

People who walk have jobs. Motorists have jobs. The number who cycle are so low that they make zero effective difference to car congestion.

Did Google also tell you about the $3 Million per km Christchurch spent of cycleways ?

Did google also tell you of the additional cleaning to keep the cycle paths safe (leaves, loose gravel, glass, moss, etc) ?

Did google tell you this needs to be done on both sides of the street ?

Did google tell you that with separation barriers this means normal street cleaning trucks can not be used.

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#2730349 17-Jun-2021 18:31

mattwnz:

To put it in perspective. NZ printed $100,000,000,000 due to Covid, which is $20,000 per person!. This has helped increase house prices in NZ by 1/4 of a trillion dollars, and means a first home buyer buying an average house in NZ now needs to get into debt by $200,000 more for the same house, than they did a year ago. I think NZ has bigger problems around money.

LOL no it didn't. I didnt get any of the printed money. M1, M2 and M3 is the money supply. None went my way. House prices globally are a problem, and before Covid. Interest rates were reduced to promote economic activity, everyone did that. Or do you want a global depression? House prices are a big deal but they are actually a big deal for very very few people. If you are in that demographics you have near zero interest rates to enjoy.

NZ has bigger problems with money, but thats about the economic recovery and supporting businesses and workers, not house prices.

sir1963

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#2730350 17-Jun-2021 18:33

tdgeek:

sxz:

Next OP will want pedestrians to pay a footpath user tax.

I was about to suggest that.

And if you were honest and had read my posts you would know that is untrue, along with the reason for it.

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#2730357 17-Jun-2021 18:38

sir1963:

tdgeek:

Cyclists often have jobs, they are contributors. If they are retired they were contributors. If they cycle they reduce CAR congestion. Checking Google, the damage caused by cyclists to roads (so kets add RUC) is quite low.... /s

People who walk have jobs. Motorists have jobs. The number who cycle are so low that they make zero effective difference to car congestion.

Did Google also tell you about the $3 Million per km Christchurch spent of cycleways ?

Did google also tell you of the additional cleaning to keep the cycle paths safe (leaves, loose gravel, glass, moss, etc) ?

Did google tell you this needs to be done on both sides of the street ?

Did google tell you that with separation barriers this means normal street cleaning trucks can not be used.

And as noted, most of that is a 'build it and they will come' problem.

Cycling figures when cycleways are not available are expected to be much below those when cycleways are available. So using today's cycling figures, rather than projections on how many more cyclists we would get, is misleading. Of course, not having these projections makes it hard.

Infrastructure is expensive. Often, the construction of the cycleway also rolls in other resurfacing and storm-protection work.

That cleaning is needed anyway on roads with cyclists on them, and to prevent flooding when it all plugs up storm drains.

I imagine that cycleway-friendly street cleaning trucks will start appearing as the installed base of cycleways grows.

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#2730358 17-Jun-2021 18:40

sir1963:

Population 57,000,

cycleway expenditure $25,000

So about $0.50 per person which is also subsidised by NZTA so would be less than $2 a year for a family of 4.

As opposed to Christchurch that spent $4000 per family of 4.

Would you be happy to have an additional rates increase of $1000 a year ?

So you are now just trying to come up with any reason to counter claim people that prove you wrong?

You claimed cyclists don't pay towards cycle lanes, I have proved they do.

NZ Is full of things that are partially funded, and things that are fully funded. If more people cycled we would probably be healthier, we maybe wouldn't have so many people wanting more health funding, and if you ever go to hospital you never pay in taxes what your treatment cost, are you wanting people to start paying towards their hospital care as well?

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#2730360 17-Jun-2021 18:46

sir1963:

And if you were honest and had read my posts you would know that is untrue, along with the reason for it.

A footpath user tax is no different to a cycle user tax. You say rates pays for footpaths. I rarely use footpaths, I have an expensive cycle gathering dust, so why are my rates payments ripping me off as I am not a user but I'm paying??? The reason why is that many items can be justified as user pays as there is a direct relationship between damage and cost. RUC is a reasonable example. If someone had medical issues through the year and I didn't, that doesn't mean they pay up big and I get a refund. Climate Change, aided by cars, will cause my taxes to be used to buy out coastal unliveable properties, I have no issue with that. You can't allocate every dollar to every occurrence. If a Council created a playground or reserve, why?? Quality of life. Or in the case of cyclists, a measure towards climate change

A fully 100% user pays environment would be an interesting watch

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#2730369 17-Jun-2021 19:08

sir1963:
As opposed to Christchurch that spent $4000 per family of 4.

Would you be happy to have an additional rates increase of $1000 a year ?

Per year? Do they have to replace them every year?

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#2730379 17-Jun-2021 19:42

sir1963:

Did Google also tell you about the $3 Million per km Christchurch spent of cycleways ?

Did google also tell you of the additional cleaning to keep the cycle paths safe (leaves, loose gravel, glass, moss, etc) ?

Did google tell you this needs to be done on both sides of the street ?

Did google tell you that with separation barriers this means normal street cleaning trucks can not be used.

Did google tell you that Transmission Gully cost is $3.5 Billion and still not finished?

MikeB4

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#2730387 17-Jun-2021 20:15

sir1963:

MikeB4:

@sir1963 In answer to the quested you put to me. I pay income tax, road tax, GST and a lot of it. That pays for cycle lanes etc. If you think the RUCs fund the roads you are very mistaken. I won't respond to the rest of your post as your mind is closed.

The rules/laws got changed so that Fuel/RUC goes to roading, it is no longer grabbed to be put into the general coffers.

You missed my point. My point was that RUCs do not cover the cost of building and maintaining the roads. The shortfall is funded by general taxation, borrowing and joint partnerships. Car drivers are being funded by those who don't drive or own motor vehicles.

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