What will power our vehicles in the future?

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#2810709 10-Nov-2021 19:42

Technofreak:

RobDickinson:

There is nothing in physics that says we cant have large scale electric aircraft.

I

Right now, Yes there is. The batteries weigh far too much for other than a very few niche operations.

Even at 400 wh/kg a battery weights about 29 times more than the equivalent energy contained in JET A1. Remember presently we are at around 250 wh/kg.

Right now the physics say it doesn't work.

It's not only the physics but also the economics. If you have 6 tonnes of batteries, that's 60 less passengers. Which is a real problem if your aircraft couldn't carry 60 in the first place.

Not to mention that large aircraft can't land with all that weight... if they have an emergency early in a flight, they have to dump fuel to get down to their landing weight.

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#2813331 15-Nov-2021 15:14

frankv:

Not to mention that large aircraft can't land with all that weight... if they have an emergency early in a flight, they have to dump fuel to get down to their landing weight.

Dumping batteries could be somewhat of an an issue!!

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#2813367 15-Nov-2021 17:01

MikeAqua:

frankv:

Not to mention that large aircraft can't land with all that weight... if they have an emergency early in a flight, they have to dump fuel to get down to their landing weight.

Dumping batteries could be somewhat of an an issue!!

Not if you use parachutes. Could be a welcome source of income to the homeless.

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#2825830 7-Dec-2021 14:11

Saw this on Stuff today.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/green-travel/300471672/londonauckland-in-zero-emissions-hydrogenpowered-jet-ukbacked-concept-design-unveiled

Still a way off before we see it. 15 to 30 years. I doubt batteries will get there in the same time frame, if ever, for aviation and be able to provide the range and payload to match or even get close to matching current fuels.

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#2825841 7-Dec-2021 14:34

When do di-lithium crystals become a viable option.

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1101

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#2825845 7-Dec-2021 14:40

Technofreak:

Saw this on Stuff today.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/green-travel/300471672/londonauckland-in-zero-emissions-hydrogenpowered-jet-ukbacked-concept-design-unveiled

Still a way off before we see it. 15 to 30 years. I doubt batteries will get there in the same time frame, if ever, for aviation and be able to provide the range and payload to match or even get close to matching current fuels.

its allways 15-30 years away.
That allways means 50years to never .
And the hydrogen will come from......extracted from fossil fuel .

The trouble is we still seem to be trying to predict future tech , and future economics . That never works out as we hoped.
Lets re-look at nuke powered planes . At least that flew . Wasnt too healthy for the crew so that would solve the issue of frivolous air travel. :-)

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#2825848 7-Dec-2021 14:45

1101:

Lets re-look at nuke powered planes . At least that flew . Wasnt too healthy for the crew so that would solve the issue of frivolous air travel. :-)

Also, fixes the issue with over population which is the core of the issue ;)

Technofreak

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#2825865 7-Dec-2021 15:14

MikeAqua:

When do di-lithium crystals become a viable option.

Only in Star Trek.

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elpenguino

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#2825869 7-Dec-2021 15:22

1101:

Technofreak:

Saw this on Stuff today.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/green-travel/300471672/londonauckland-in-zero-emissions-hydrogenpowered-jet-ukbacked-concept-design-unveiled

Still a way off before we see it. 15 to 30 years. I doubt batteries will get there in the same time frame, if ever, for aviation and be able to provide the range and payload to match or even get close to matching current fuels.

its allways 15-30 years away.
That allways means 50years to never .
And the hydrogen will come from......extracted from fossil fuel .

I think the challenge for some of us is we think everything is 'just too hard' and we can't imagine things different to how they are now.

As we've seen from Musk's new car company, change is actually possible.

I recently heard a snippet of an interview related to COP26. An entrepreneur suggested linking solar plants based in northern hemisphere deserts, allowing energy generated in one timezone's daylight to be used in evening peak times elsewhere.

So with an idea like that, how can you singlehandedly say things like 'never'?

What if a big H2 plant was built in the Australian desert?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2825871 7-Dec-2021 15:26

1101:

Technofreak:

Saw this on Stuff today.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/green-travel/300471672/londonauckland-in-zero-emissions-hydrogenpowered-jet-ukbacked-concept-design-unveiled

Still a way off before we see it. 15 to 30 years. I doubt batteries will get there in the same time frame, if ever, for aviation and be able to provide the range and payload to match or even get close to matching current fuels.

its allways 15-30 years away.
That allways means 50years to never .
And the hydrogen will come from......extracted from fossil fuel .

The trouble is we still seem to be trying to predict future tech , and future economics . That never works out as we hoped.
Lets re-look at nuke powered planes . At least that flew . Wasnt too healthy for the crew so that would solve the issue of frivolous air travel. :-)

If there's going to be a replacement for fossil fuels for aviation then hydrogen is currently the best bet. There are green sources of hydrogen already and with advancements in technology these will continue to improve. Hydrogen doesn't have to come from fossil fuels.

The tech isn't all that far into the future, it's here now with hydrogen already being used in place of fossil fuels to power ICE vehicles. The time delay will be in the certification process and any unique aviation considerations.

If hydrogen cannot be made to work economically for aviation then fossil fuels will continue to be the only viable fuel.

As it is now aviation contributes 2% of world CO2 emissions and about 12% of transport emissions. In the big scheme of things there are much lower hanging fruit than aviation emissions.

As far as I know there has never been a nuclear powered aircraft. The Russians claimed to have made a nuclear powered aircraft but it is widely considered that there has never been a nuclear powered aircraft.

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MikeAqua

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#2825928 7-Dec-2021 15:38

1101:

And the hydrogen will come from......extracted from fossil fuel .

Doesn't have to. Green hydrogen generation (if the tech matures sufficiently) could be a valuable distributed use for surplus renewable power. That's not possible with the current market structure or technology but I wouldn't rule it out yet. BEVs were pie-sky technology for decades but are now close to commercially viable.

Mike

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RobDickinson

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#2825941 7-Dec-2021 15:52

elpenguino:

What if a big H2 plant was built in the Australian desert?

Australia is ripe for producing cheap clean energy but h2 isnt the best way of storing or transporting it.

You either have to compress it or liquefy it neither is an efficient or easy option.

Probably best to store/transport the energy as Ammonia, or just send it out via cables like the Singapore project

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#2825997 7-Dec-2021 16:06

RobDickinson:

Australia is ripe for producing cheap clean energy but h2 isnt the best way of storing or transporting it.

You either have to compress it or liquefy it neither is an efficient or easy option.

Probably best to store/transport the energy as Ammonia, or just send it out via cables like the Singapore project

Or send it on the Suiso Frontier

RobDickinson

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#2825999 7-Dec-2021 16:14

Right now that uses coal. yay for the hydrogen economy

Rikkitic

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#2826052 7-Dec-2021 16:21

RobDickinson:

Right now that uses coal. yay for the hydrogen economy

Cheap shot that doesn't mean a thing. We are in a transitional phase.

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