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Sidestep
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  #2837754 24-Dec-2021 12:12
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RobDickinson:

 

"The new report indicates that “water electrolysis made up ~0.03%” of global hydrogen production last year."

 

 

Yes, it's depressing - we've got to go so much faster and better.
When the IPCC special report called for "unprecedented, drastic action" worldwide - they were understating the problem.
We're all fiddling as Rome burns..

 

Places like NZ - where we get a decent amount of electricity from renewables (85% from memory) - should be leading the world in H2 production.
With green hydrogen as an intermediary we could start decarbonizing our many industrial processes that can't use electricity directly.

 

Nitrogen Fertilizers for example -  we use 850,000 tonnes of urea each year in New Zealand.
The Kapuni plant in Taranaki makes about a third of it - the rest we import from the Middle East and China, all made from fossil fuels..

 

Ballances' Kapuni plant Converts over 7PJ (that's petajoules) of natural gas a year to 31,000T of hydrogen feed-stock to make 150,000 tonnes of ammonia, which is converted to 265,000 tonnes of granular urea. 
That urea's used mainly as nitrogen-rich fertiliser, also formaldehyde based resins for particleboard and MDF, and 5 million litres of GoClear urea solution - for diesel exhaust scrubbing.

 

Between them and Methanex's plant nearby - which produces methanol - over half of all NZ's natural gas is consumed making grey hydrogen as a feedstock.

 

The Ballance & Methanex plants could provide a nice baseload demand for NZ green hydrogen production. 

 

They've made a start - Ballance has partnered with Hiringa in a JV to develop a commercial scale green ammonia production pilot. 
Under their Joint Development Agreement the two companies are building four big wind turbines (with a total capacity of 16MW) to power hydrogen electrolysers..
They're also going to have a small H2 fueling station off Palmer rd.

Sounds good right? Except a pilot this size's only going to partly decarbonise (<5%) of their New Zealand production.. let alone replacing imports.

 

Dr Chris Bumby at Victoria University’s investigating a zero-carbon method of reducing ironsand - replacing coal with green hydrogen, to provide a solution to the environmental cost of steelmaking.
The problem is BOC's green hydrogen plant on Whitlam rd in Glenbrook, produces – via electrolysis using certified ‘zero’ power from Kea energy - only a minute amount of the green H2 needed...

 

Contact and Meridian are expressing interest in green hydrogen production in Southland, if the Tiwai aluminium smelter closes in 2024.
Fortescue Metals and Refining NZ are looking at producing, storing and distributing industrial-scale green hydrogen at the Marsden Point refinery, which is about to be converted into an import-only fuel terminal.
The site's got a deep-water port, nearby large electricity grid connections and industrial water supply.

 

The problem is none of this has even got a start date..

 

We should have started industrial-scale green H2 production yesterday.

 

 




Obraik
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  #2837771 24-Dec-2021 12:42
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Sidestep:

 

Places like NZ - where we get a decent amount of electricity from renewables (85% from memory) - should be leading the world in H2 production.
With green hydrogen as an intermediary we could start decarbonizing our many industrial processes that can't use electricity directly.

 

...

 

We should have started industrial-scale green H2 production yesterday.

 

 

 

 

For things like smelting, sure. For transport? No

 

We shouldn't be wasting our renewable energy on making hydrogen for transport. The electricity required to make a hydrogen vehicle move 100km could be used to move an EV 300km.





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RobDickinson
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  #2837775 24-Dec-2021 12:47
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H2 certainly should be aimed at where batteries wont work. 

 

 

 

Somewhat a shame that Tiwa point will close , I hate Rio Tinto but that aluminium will be smelted somewhere , I'd rather it was with renewable.




Gurezaemon
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  #2837802 24-Dec-2021 13:30
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Good to see that 3-minute battery swapping for EVs will become a reality outside of China.

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/all-electric-nio-et5-revealed-with-massive-1000km-range-figure/





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Sidestep
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  #2837809 24-Dec-2021 13:49
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RobDickinson:

 

H2 certainly should be aimed at where batteries wont work.

 

Absolutely.
Even Hyundai's own heavy transport FCEV program accepts that <1% of transport will likely be using H2 by 2030 - while >30% will be BEV's

 

 

Somewhat a shame that Tiwa point will close , I hate Rio Tinto but that aluminium will be smelted somewhere , I'd rather it was with renewable.

 

 

It will still be smelted with renewables, just using cheaper and less polluting processes - discussed in the Tiwai Point thread.


Rikkitic
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  #2837827 24-Dec-2021 14:18
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Gurezaemon:

 

Good to see that 3-minute battery swapping for EVs will become a reality outside of China.

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/all-electric-nio-et5-revealed-with-massive-1000km-range-figure/

 

 

Your link is faulty

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


Gurezaemon
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  #2837888 24-Dec-2021 14:41
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Rikkitic:

 

Gurezaemon:

 

 

Your link is faulty

 

 

Oops. 

 

This should work.

 

All-electric Nio ET5 revealed with massive 1000km range figure





Get your business seen overseas - Nexus Translations


 
 
 

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Dingbatt
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  #2837895 24-Dec-2021 14:58
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Sidestep:

 

RobDickinson:

 

"The new report indicates that “water electrolysis made up ~0.03%” of global hydrogen production last year."

 

 

Yes, it's depressing - we've got to go so much faster and better.
When the IPCC special report called for "unprecedented, drastic action" worldwide - they were understating the problem.
We're all fiddling as Rome burns…………..snip

 

Places like NZ - where we get a decent amount of electricity from renewables (85% from memory) - should be leading the world in H2 production.
With green hydrogen as an intermediary we could start decarbonizing our many industrial processes that can't use electricity.

 

We should have started industrial-scale green H2 production yesterday.

 

 

 

 

Aren’t we importing coal from Indonesia at the moment to keep the lights on? My point being, don’t you need to get the other 15% renewable before you can look at green hydrogen?





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


RobDickinson
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  #2837896 24-Dec-2021 15:01
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Yes, an exceptional dry year, its not typical nor is it a long term thing, with huntly's future already decided


Dingbatt
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  #2837898 24-Dec-2021 15:03
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RobDickinson:

 

Yes, an exceptional dry year, its not typical nor is it a long term thing, with huntly's future already decided

 

 

So when people are saying “more frequent and serious droughts in the future”, that’s bs?





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


RobDickinson
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  #2837900 24-Dec-2021 15:05
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No , no its not, the point is whilst we'll have more droughts we'll also decommission the coal power station and have a lot more renewable online


Ge0rge
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  #2837952 24-Dec-2021 15:09
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RobDickinson:

No , no its not, the point is whilst we'll have more droughts we'll also decommission the coal power station and have a lot more renewable online



Which renewables are coming on line though? I acknowledge that there are consents for several hydro systems, but none have started construction, and while Meridan are building new turbines, it certainly won't make a dent in the hole left by Huntly closing - especially not if they keep burning them down!

Sidestep
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  #2837954 24-Dec-2021 15:12
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Ge0rge:
RobDickinson:

 

No , no its not, the point is whilst we'll have more droughts we'll also decommission the coal power station and have a lot more renewable online

 



Which renewables are coming on line though? I acknowledge that there are consents for several hydro systems, but none have started construction, and while Meridan are building new turbines, it certainly won't make a dent in the hole left by Huntly closing - especially not if they keep burning them down!

 

 

 

Methanex is also selling it's production gas (for a profit) to Genesis to keep the lights on.

 

NZ should have started building the Onslow Gravity Battery yesterday..


RobDickinson
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  #2837955 24-Dec-2021 15:14
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Ge0rge:

Which renewables are coming on line though? I acknowledge that there are consents for several hydro systems, but none have started construction, and while Meridan are building new turbines, it certainly won't make a dent in the hole left by Huntly closing - especially not if they keep burning them down!

 

 

 

https://www.meridianenergy.co.nz/news-and-events/meridian-to-build-renewable-energy-park-at-marsden-point

 

 

 

https://www.christchurchairport.co.nz/about-us/sustainability/kowhai-park/

 

 

 

etc


Technofreak

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  #2839485 28-Dec-2021 12:13
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Here's a balanced look at BEV aircraft. https://youtu.be/a717YZnhQ-s

 

Salient points from my perspective.

 

  • Watt hours/kg at cell level V watt hours/kg at battery level
  • The legal useful flight time for some current electric aircraft
  • Certification time frames, Joby's Vs what happens in the real world
  • The scale of manufacture required to achieve their stated costs V what is realistic.




Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


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