Nissan LEAF - General

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155 posts

Master Geek

#3308156 12-Nov-2024 16:03

Hi All

Has anyone seen or contacted Hybrid Batteries in Auckland about their 54kW drop in battery replacement for ALL leaf models? 😲

At just under $15k I'm seriously considering the offer.

I was investigating buying a new EV next year, but this is 25% of the cost of a new car and I actually like driving the old bucket. I've already replaced the battery in the 2012 car with a 2016 battery a few years ago, but the battery is getting tired again, and I'm sick of having to continuously watch the GOM/Battery gauge.

I've had the car for 8+ years and it's never missed a beat, still under 80K as I don't drive it very far (guess why....).

The battery pack is a NEW pack that has CATL batteries in it (no cooling - expected) not the Nissan pouch cells. This has been certified by Nissan from what I discussed with the Tech I spoke with for about 30 minutes.

They don't buy back the batteries, but if your pack is decent, they may have someone that may buy it off you and fit it to their car (people may be that desperate I guess). They will hold it for you and charge a comission (expected). I guess I could get it shipped back home and hook it up to my solar system, but I don't like the idea of having the old battery in my house (where would I put it???).

Anyhow, thought I would say something in this megathread. 😁

Jase2985

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#3308205 12-Nov-2024 17:18

You have very bad luck to go through 2 batteries in 80,000km.

You can get a new leaf for 30k so i don't know why you would want to keep putting new batteries in a 2012 model.

NZSpides

155 posts

Master Geek

#3308209 12-Nov-2024 17:32

I think you've missed the entire point.

You can't drive very far because the battery is 24kW and the batteries die regardless of how far you drive. I don't need to drive very far.

It's not bad luck, the pouch cells are crap.

I own the 2012, the body is in good condition, why buy an complete new car when a fraction of the cost

Why would I want to buy another leaf with a 30kW battery when I can spend half the price and get twice the capacity and new battery technology?

I'm about reducing waste, so getting something new just for the new shiny thing is a bit wasteful.

Jase2985

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#3308216 12-Nov-2024 17:50

Well you did say "I was investigating buying a new EV next year, but this is 25% of the cost of a new car" so i was just pointing out you can get a brand-new leaf for half of what you are thinking, and double the cost of your battery. You're also getting the newer technology in the car that your current one doesn't have.

15k is a lot of money to gamble on the battery which doesn't really appear to have been tested outside of China which would leave me a little sceptical. If you can get some first-hand information from people with it, it would be a bit better but trying to get that may be challenging.

NZSpides

155 posts

Master Geek

#3308217 12-Nov-2024 17:52

This is why I was making the post, to see what others knew.

Jase2985

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#3308226 12-Nov-2024 18:13

NZSpides: This is why I was making the post, to see what others knew.

I've seen nothing on the NZ leaf pages or any links to overseas pages outside of China talking about them.

Cybnate

71 posts

Master Geek

#3308238 12-Nov-2024 18:50

NZSpides:

Hi All

Has anyone seen or contacted Hybrid Batteries in Auckland about their 54kW drop in battery replacement for ALL leaf models? 😲

I believe that the weight of the pack would probably exceed the maximum allowed weight for the Leaf. I understand a battery >40kW on older model Leaf would require recertifying your car and as part of that also upgrading the shock absorbers or something related. You might want to check that as it will cost more to do all of that.

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smac

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Ultimate Geek

#3308254 12-Nov-2024 20:16

Cybnate:

NZSpides:

Hi All

Has anyone seen or contacted Hybrid Batteries in Auckland about their 54kW drop in battery replacement for ALL leaf models? 😲

I believe that the weight of the pack would probably exceed the maximum allowed weight for the Leaf. I understand a battery >40kW on older model Leaf would require recertifying your car and as part of that also upgrading the shock absorbers or something related. You might want to check that as it will cost more to do all of that.

Good point. Some pretty minor modifications require LVV certification, and I'm guessing fitting a 3rd party power supply would hit that threshold. If it doesn't it probably should! However in saying that I'm not sure the regs have kept up with a lot of EV stuff..... and it's not like the WoF guy would know.....

NZSpides

155 posts

Master Geek

#3308260 12-Nov-2024 20:35

I spent quite a while talking to the tech at the facility. He stated that the 54kW battery is fit for purpose for even the first generation leafs. The battery pack is within spec for the weight capacity of the car and breaking system.
The battery cells are new from CATL who happen to be the largest battery producing company in the world. They come with a minimum 2 year warranty or 100,000 km (whichever comes first).
So these cells won’t have the abysmally poor longevity that the original pouch cells Nissan put in the leafs. From the discussion I had they don’t produce anywhere near the heat during normal charge and discharge cycles.

They have sold out the first batch of 12 I think he said they got in. They are gettting more in shortly. I was hoping someone here might have been one of the customers.

I’m 80% towards getting it done on my 2012 leaf. See how I feel in a month or two and if I can talk to someone that’s had it done.
I don’t care that the car is old, it’s still running fine. Admittedly I’d be changing the head unit if I did the battery upgrade, I really want to have CarPlay, that’s about the only thing I would want.

Yes, I could buy a new car, my wife drives an Atto, and to be honest, I prefer my leaf. I’ve been in a few EVs, but the leaf suits me.

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#3308281 12-Nov-2024 21:12

NZSpides:

Hi All

Has anyone seen or contacted Hybrid Batteries in Auckland about their 54kW drop in battery replacement for ALL leaf models? 😲

At just under $15k I'm seriously considering the offer.

I was investigating buying a new EV next year, but this is 25% of the cost of a new car and I actually like driving the old bucket. I've already replaced the battery in the 2012 car with a 2016 battery a few years ago, but the battery is getting tired again, and I'm sick of having to continuously watch the GOM/Battery gauge.

I've had the car for 8+ years and it's never missed a beat, still under 80K as I don't drive it very far (guess why....).

The battery pack is a NEW pack that has CATL batteries in it (no cooling - expected) not the Nissan pouch cells. This has been certified by Nissan from what I discussed with the Tech I spoke with for about 30 minutes.

They don't buy back the batteries, but if your pack is decent, they may have someone that may buy it off you and fit it to their car (people may be that desperate I guess). They will hold it for you and charge a comission (expected). I guess I could get it shipped back home and hook it up to my solar system, but I don't like the idea of having the old battery in my house (where would I put it???).

Anyhow, thought I would say something in this megathread. 😁

It was discussed on reddit a couple of weeks ago: (I assume the prices below are excl GST)

r/nzev - New battery replacement

https://www.reddit.com/r/nzev/comments/1gf9fce/new_battery_replacement/

The 54 kWh battery price is way sharper than expected. For comparison the (I think stalled) 16 Blade battery project by EV Enhanced was not aiming to undercut the price Nissan USA charges for a new pack, which works out to ~$23k after currency conversion. Means it is at leas worth running an evaluation.

A couple of things:

It is fairly implausible that an aftermarket leaf battery pack will be Nissan certified. In general automakers don't generally certify aftermarket parts, as they want people to buy their overpriced genuine parts...
Getting 410 km range out of a 54 kWh (I assume total, not useable), battery pack in a leaf is unlikely. If we scale against the 40 kWh 90% SOH pack in the table we get 330 - 360km...

If we assume you could sell your 2012 leaf for say $3k (this will depend a lot on the current state of health of the battery), combined with the $15k cost (incl GST) of the battery upgrade, the opportunity cost is $18k.

Alternative options for around that money:

Used 2017 40 kWh leaf for $14k. Lesser range (~250 km), but $4k cheaper, and a 5 year newer car of a later generation: Bigger boot, more powerful motor (80 kW vs 110 kW), modern features like adaptive cruise, Pilot pro assist, Apple Car play etc. And flip the fleet data shows the batteries are holding up really well on these. Example
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/nissan/leaf/listing/4996226045
Used 2019 62kWh leaf for $24k. $6k more expensive than our battery upgrade opportunity cost, but for that money you get a 7 year newer car, a bigger 62kWh battery, a 160 kW motor (vs 80 kW), Everything OEM setup (i.e. suspension matched to the battery weight), bigger boot, pro pilot, 100 kW CHAdeMO fast charging (vs 50 kW on smaller battery leaf's) etc. Example:
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/nissan/leaf/listing/4996226045
2017 Ioniq 28kWh for $13k. ~200km range, but extremely efficient, with CCS2 fast charging and a great charge curve. Batteries tend to hold up well in these (but it is very hard to check the health). Example:
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/hyundai/ioniq/listing/4993568631
2019 Kona 64kWh for $23k. 400+ kM real world range, CCS fast charging. Smaller car than the leaf, but 7 years newer than your 2012 features like adaptive cruse. Example
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/hyundai/kona/listing/4997314743
2016 BYD E6 for $15k (although one is currently in an auction at $10k so far). 82 kWh highly durable LFP battery (still going strong after 200,000km+ of taxi duty in Singapore). ~300km range. AC charging up to 43 kW (rare), but NO DC CHARGING. Example:
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/byd/other/listing/5009251833

Note the Hyundai's quote usable battery capacity, not total so don't compare kWh directly with other brands like Nissan who quote total.

I think it is Great that Hybrid batteries have brought this option to the market, and I hope people do buy it, in order to support a healthy aftermarket for leaf batteries, but if it was my money I would be picking one of the other options on the list above.

A lot will come down to the current State of health (or bars) of you existing battery. Generally 24 kWh leaf packs will continue running fine until they reach ~45% Health, when the risk of an entire cell dyeing, and playing a wackamole game of replacing dead cells begins...

Something doesn't really add up regarding your 2014 battery. Per flip the fleet data, 2014 - 2014 24kWh battery packs are actually holding up OK. Data is a year old, but I have a 2014 24 kWh leaf for a few years (5th percentile battery health due to over 1100 fast charges in Japan, but this was priced in), down to 8 bars now, but the car itself is still going strong.

If your car has more than say 55% battery health, is still has many years of useful service in it (for somebody with short range needs), and there is little need to worry about the waste angle, as the car will continue to be used.

Given there was talk of Hybrid batteries putting the pack in another car, I assume it is not immediately on deaths door?

Two issues to be aware of with major battery pack upgrades in EV's:

You will need to discuss with your insurers that you have a $3k car with a $15k upgraded battery, and if they will cover you for $18k
When it comes time to sell the car, you will need to convince potential buyers that your 2012 leaf is worth far more than any other 2012 leaf in the market. People searching by lowest price are not even going to see that it exists...

But of course, it is not possible to put a price on the attachment you have with your current car, and it is great there is an option to improve it.

NZSpides:

I think you've missed the entire point.

You can't drive very far because the battery is 24kW and the batteries die regardless of how far you drive. I don't need to drive very far.

It's not bad luck, the pouch cells are crap.

I own the 2012, the body is in good condition, why buy an complete new car when a fraction of the cost

Why would I want to buy another leaf with a 30kW battery when I can spend half the price and get twice the capacity and new battery technology?

I'm about reducing waste, so getting something new just for the new shiny thing is a bit wasteful.

A few counter points. Not getting at you, just putting a different perspective on the table.

If you don't need to drive very far, a used 40 kWh leaf would seem to be an attractive option. Newer car, better features, more powerful motor, batteries holding up very well per flip the fleet data, and available cheaper than a pack upgrade for your 2012.

The 24 kWh leaf uses Prismatic cells, not pouch cells. There are pro's and cons to each of Cylindrical, Prismatic & Pouch cells, but I don't feel the form factor is the villain here. I would be more inclined to point the finger at chemistry and/or thermal management. If you take a look at flip the fleet data below, you can see the 40kWh leaf cells are holding up quite wall (and the degradation curve is clearly concave up):

https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/

Having a 2016 24 kWh battery needing replacement is very much bad luck. A 5th percentile battery should be 8 or 9 bars, so yours must be an outlyer.

I agree on the point about a new car, that option is a lot more expensive. But do consider used cars which could work out cheaper than the pack upgrade.

Given you are willing to sink $18k (incl the value of your current car), into this, no need to like at 30 kWh leaf's. 40 kWh leaf's are a heap better and are available for ~18k. Nothing wrong with the battery tech in the 40kWh (other than rapidgate issues)

Unless your leaf's current battery is on death's door, you are not saving it from a wreckers yard. It will remain on the road serving somebody with a low budget and low range needs.

But yeah, I love that the option is available, and really hope that people to take to keep a healthy aftermarket industry for Nissan Leaf's in NZ.

NZSpides

155 posts

Master Geek

#3308288 12-Nov-2024 21:29

I’m assuming the tech was referring that the battery was mechanically certified, I’m not sure.

There are other reasons for keeping the car - we have two kids that are still at home, the car can be used by them later on.

There’s no way I’m ever buying another leaf with a Nissan battery, yes they are cheap cars, but the batteries just don’t last compared to the others on the market.
Still considering a new Dolphin.

Like I said I’m not completely sold on the exchange. You do have valid points, most of which I’m aware of, a few not. Good response, thank you.

everettpsycho

614 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3308294 12-Nov-2024 21:43

One thing the 64kWh leaf offers you missed is they generally have the faster AC chargers, so there is opportunity there if you use free AC chargers. Not a huge saving but if you have charging at work or access to the zero charges via meridian you'd benefit from double the charge speed.

I love to see that a big replacement pack is now available at that price but interesting they only offer 54kWh and didn't consider a 40kWh pack that might come in under $10k making it more appealing. I did always think it would be a nice idea to upgrade but if we want a run about i keep thinking second hand oras and mg zs are now also kicking about between $20-$25k which is very compelling pricing.

kingdragonfly

11196 posts

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#3320477 14-Dec-2024 16:20

A video showing fixing a welded contactor

Edd China Reveals the Shocking Truth About EV Battery Repair

"Should you pull the plug on your EV and its pricey battery just because of a fault? Absolutely not! Fixing it might seem electrifyingly complicated, but don’t worry—you won’t be shocked to learn that with the right steps, it’s entirely doable. In this video, I shed some light on how to safely replace a faulty battery component. A while back, I charged over to Bosch to get the current insights on what you can and can’t do, along with the specialised training and tools needed to tackle the high-powered parts of today’s EVs.

Edd China’s Workshop Diaries Episode 68 - Bosch Level 4, Cheap Battery Pack Fix"

natols

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Wannabe Geek

#3320636 14-Dec-2024 22:17

natols:

I have a 2012 Leaf with the classic signs of On Board Charger (OBC) failure. It will accept a rapid DC charge but not L1/L2 AC - with two different EVSE charging cables it will start charging for 3 seconds and then stop, with the LeafSpy error codes:

B29C1-23 6C CHARGER EVSE VC-98
and
P3173-00 C0 On Board Charger Sys EVC-236

Since these things are rather pricey new, I'm wondering if they come up often in wrecks and, if so, how could I go about tracking one down? There doesn't seem to be anything on TradeMe at the moment.

Thanks for the suggestions all. I ended up posting the OBC to EVs Enhanced in Chch who were able to diagnose it properly and send back a refurbished unit. Now happily driving again!

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#3320677 15-Dec-2024 09:07

NZSpides:

Hi All

Has anyone seen or contacted Hybrid Batteries in Auckland about their 54kW drop in battery replacement for ALL leaf models? 😲

At just under $15k I'm seriously considering the offer.

I was investigating buying a new EV next year, but this is 25% of the cost of a new car and I actually like driving the old bucket. I've already replaced the battery in the 2012 car with a 2016 battery a few years ago, but the battery is getting tired again, and I'm sick of having to continuously watch the GOM/Battery gauge.

I've had the car for 8+ years and it's never missed a beat, still under 80K as I don't drive it very far (guess why....).

The battery pack is a NEW pack that has CATL batteries in it (no cooling - expected) not the Nissan pouch cells. This has been certified by Nissan from what I discussed with the Tech I spoke with for about 30 minutes.

They don't buy back the batteries, but if your pack is decent, they may have someone that may buy it off you and fit it to their car (people may be that desperate I guess). They will hold it for you and charge a comission (expected). I guess I could get it shipped back home and hook it up to my solar system, but I don't like the idea of having the old battery in my house (where would I put it???).

Anyhow, thought I would say something in this megathread. 😁

or you could buy Leaf off people.

me and my mate went to 2 different dealers with our 2015 24kWh leaf with SOH 80% and asked what the buy or trade in value of our cars are (Dec 2024). mine has 35,000kms, his had 68,000kms.

both dealers said $1500. i checked on FB Leaf page and a couple of other people around the country have said the same.

so would i buy a $15k battery pack for a car that's worth $1.5k?

i think you know the answer.

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