Ditch Road User Charges?

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368 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2284161 26-Jul-2019 12:23

RUC is not just for diesel vehicles either. If you happen to have a petrol powered vehicle over 3,500kg GVM then you have to buy RUC as well as petrol.

Large trailers also require a RUC.

Tractors and any diesel powered vehicle will have to pay RUC on the road, usually there is GPS monitored system to record the number of Kms a tractor does on the open road vs in the farm paddock.

With the changes coming in 2021 where RUC will be charged on electric vehicles, I believe that is the time to overhaul the system with a new weight band in for vehicles 0kg to 2000kg GVM then from 2001 to 3500kg GVM, to seperate the smaller vehicles from the large SUV/Utes. (this was on the drawing board back in 2005, but the Labour Government of the time elected not to enact it due to the loss of income). Also in 2021, taking all taxes off petrol and replacing with RUC will also capture hybrids who can buy petrol, but then run electrically, thereby become a cheaper way to run than pure electric with RUC.

jonathan18

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#2284165 26-Jul-2019 12:29

empacher48:

Also in 2021, taking all taxes off petrol and replacing with RUC will also capture hybrids who can buy petrol, but then run electrically, thereby become a cheaper way to run than pure electric with RUC.

That's a good point; I have been contemplating a PHEV for my next vehicle, given most of my daily driving would be more than covered by the electric-only range. It would be most ironic if I didn't have to contribute to the roading cost in relation to most of my driving, whereas my wife in her Leaf would pay RUCs for every km travelled.

All these stupid anomalies need to be sorted, and this should be done at the same time as the exemption for EVs expires.

wratterus

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#2284167 26-Jul-2019 12:32

I would argue the opposite - with electric cars becoming more common the government needs to have a way of getting that lost income from fuel taxes back.

So far they are just scheming those of us that drive diesels by hiking RUCs three years in a row. 😑 This is not just hurting those that drive diesels, but also everyone, as the rising RUC costs for truckies do of course get passed onto the consumer.

IMO all registered vehicles should pay RUCs, with certain exemptions for farm vehicles, private trailers etc - think it would be a much fairer system. This also allows the trucking industry to be slightly subsidized without being a big burden on the average motorist, because if you go down the rabbit hole of weight/road damage/RUC paid then trucks should technically pay more, but this is just not viable, the amount they pay is pretty crazy already.

Maybe we should have better rail networks but that doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon so surely this would be the next best option?

Obraik

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#2284208 26-Jul-2019 13:53

I don't think RUC should go away, but I think it needs a revamp with new classes added to it. When the RUC exemption expires, an EV is going to end up paying more RUC than a Hybrid/PHEV will. They either need to add a new class that reduces the cost of RUC for EVs or they need to add a new class of RUC for Hybrids/PHEVs that brings them up to the same level.

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Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#2284224 26-Jul-2019 13:57

I don't want to give them ideas, but nek minnit our grand imperial leader and her ilk will be proposing stamp duty on all vehicle purchases. This raises a significant amount of revenue in the Australian states every year. Just to give you an example, if all 10,000 people who bought a brand new Ford Ranger in NZ last year was obligated to pay stamp duty at the prescribed New South Wales rate, it would raise $27 million.

Of course stamp duty applies to all car sales in Australia - both new and used. One estimate I found points to revenue from stamp duty Australia wide being in excess of $3.2 billion annually. Scale that back to the NZ population, and you're still looking at $623 million annually, which is hardly chump change.

tdgeek

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#2284235 26-Jul-2019 14:06

Obraik:

I don't think RUC should go away, but I think it needs a revamp with new classes added to it. When the RUC exemption expires, an EV is going to end up paying more RUC than a Hybrid/PHEV will. They either need to add a new class that reduces the cost of RUC for EVs or they need to add a new class of RUC for Hybrids/PHEVs that brings them up to the same level.

Where did you hear that? All I am aware of is that the EV RUC exemption will cease. This means that there will be some form of process to account for that. Obviously. PHEV's will be looked at, so that all light class vehicles that use the road, pay the same load.

kharris

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#2284236 26-Jul-2019 14:07

To the OP I believe that RUC are the way of the future. It will need to be user pays not petrol pays. Yes user pays. Even for cyclists.

So the cyclists argument is that they pay rates and pay rego for their car.

Hmmm. I pay rates. I pay rego for my car. Maybe based on that argument I shouldn’t have to pay a rego for my trailer because I don’t use it very often anymore and it doesn’t required any special laneways to be built to use.

The initial argument was simply for user pays. If you have two cars and a motorcycle and a trailer you have to pay for each of them. So why is a cyclist that uses extra infrastructure in the form of cycle lanes suddenly supposed to be exempt. Just because the pay rates (in some cases) and own a car (in some cases).

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Obraik

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#2284238 26-Jul-2019 14:10

tdgeek:

Obraik:

I don't think RUC should go away, but I think it needs a revamp with new classes added to it. When the RUC exemption expires, an EV is going to end up paying more RUC than a Hybrid/PHEV will. They either need to add a new class that reduces the cost of RUC for EVs or they need to add a new class of RUC for Hybrids/PHEVs that brings them up to the same level.

Where did you hear that? All I am aware of is that the EV RUC exemption will cease. This means that there will be some form of process to account for that. Obviously. PHEV's will be looked at, so that all light class vehicles that use the road, pay the same load.

It's just how the math works. Hybrids pay their RUC via petrol, whereas EVs will pay their RUC at a flat rate like a diesel. Since Hybrids use less fuel, they pay less RUC. There has currently been no processes announced or talked about by the government on how they plan to deal with this.

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sbiddle

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#2284242 26-Jul-2019 14:21

Wheelbarrow01:

I don't want to give them ideas, but nek minnit our grand imperial leader and her ilk will be proposing stamp duty on all vehicle purchases. This raises a significant amount of revenue in the Australian states every year. Just to give you an example, if all 10,000 people who bought a brand new Ford Ranger in NZ last year was obligated to pay stamp duty at the prescribed New South Wales rate, it would raise $27 million.

Of course stamp duty applies to all car sales in Australia - both new and used. One estimate I found points to revenue from stamp duty Australia wide being in excess of $3.2 billion annually. Scale that back to the NZ population, and you're still looking at $623 million annually, which is hardly chump change.

Most (or possibly all) states also have a luxury car tax.

mattwnz

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#2284243 26-Jul-2019 14:22

kharris: To the OP I believe that RUC are the way of the future. It will need to be user pays not petrol pays. Yes user pays. Even for cyclists.

So the cyclists argument is that they pay rates and pay rego for their car.

Hmmm. I pay rates. I pay rego for my car. Maybe based on that argument I shouldn’t have to pay a rego for my trailer because I don’t use it very often anymore and it doesn’t required any special laneways to be built to use.

The initial argument was simply for user pays. If you have two cars and a motorcycle and a trailer you have to pay for each of them. So why is a cyclist that uses extra infrastructure in the form of cycle lanes suddenly supposed to be exempt. Just because the pay rates (in some cases) and own a car (in some cases).

I don't believe cyclists should pay, because they h create hardly any wear on the roads ,unlike cars and trucks. Plus we should be encouraging more cyclists as they are a largely zero energy transport solution, except it probably isn't all that healthy breathing in vehicle fumes until the fleet is fully electric. But if the bike or scooter is powered with a motor, then it is possibly is fair they pay some RUC, as long as it is a safe dedicated cycle lane. Currently many are shared with cars, and are not all that safe, as you are trusting car drivers are watching out for cyclists, and aren't opening doors out onto cycle lanes.

tdgeek

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#2284245 26-Jul-2019 14:26

Obraik:

tdgeek:

Obraik:

I don't think RUC should go away, but I think it needs a revamp with new classes added to it. When the RUC exemption expires, an EV is going to end up paying more RUC than a Hybrid/PHEV will. They either need to add a new class that reduces the cost of RUC for EVs or they need to add a new class of RUC for Hybrids/PHEVs that brings them up to the same level.

Where did you hear that? All I am aware of is that the EV RUC exemption will cease. This means that there will be some form of process to account for that. Obviously. PHEV's will be looked at, so that all light class vehicles that use the road, pay the same load.

It's just how the math works. Hybrids pay their RUC via petrol, whereas EVs will pay their RUC at a flat rate like a diesel. Since Hybrids use less fuel, they pay less RUC. There has currently been no processes announced or talked about by the government on how they plan to deal with this.

We know how the math works. There is no process for EV yet. Or Hybrids. Isn't all this under consultation?

Obraik

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#2284247 26-Jul-2019 14:29

tdgeek:
We know how the math works. There is no process for EV yet. Or Hybrids. Isn't all this under consultation?

At this stage, when the exemption expires EVs will go back to paying the same light vehicle rate that diesel cars and utes pay, as they did before the exemption was added.

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trig42

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#2284248 26-Jul-2019 14:35

I was of the opinion that RUC should be dropped for vehicles under 2000kg and diesel increased in price, then RUCs charged for vehicles over 2000kg at the incremental rate.

Mainly because I have a diesel vehicle and work pays my fuel costs and not my RUCs :)

After reading through this thread, I've changed my mind. Cut the RUC component out of petrol, and charge all vehicles RUCs. Bring in a new weight band though at under 2t (or 2.5, whatever).

They won't do it though - imagine the outcry. They'll just bodgy something up for EVs, forget about PHEVs and hybrids. It would take a government with some balls not one that just wants everyone to be happy.

tdgeek

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#2284249 26-Jul-2019 14:39

Obraik:
tdgeek:

We know how the math works. There is no process for EV yet. Or Hybrids. Isn't all this under consultation?

At this stage, when the exemption expires EVs will go back to paying the same light vehicle rate that diesel cars and utes pay, as they did before the exemption was added.

Ok, so itsbeen decided by the Government that EVs will go back to paying the same light vehicle rate that diesel cars and utes pay, as they did before the exemption was added, and that there will be no changes to cater for Hybrids.

I must have missed that in their consultation plan....

Obraik

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#2284253 26-Jul-2019 14:42

tdgeek:
Obraik:
tdgeek:

We know how the math works. There is no process for EV yet. Or Hybrids. Isn't all this under consultation?

At this stage, when the exemption expires EVs will go back to paying the same light vehicle rate that diesel cars and utes pay, as they did before the exemption was added.

Ok, so itsbeen decided by the Government that EVs will go back to paying the same light vehicle rate that diesel cars and utes pay, as they did before the exemption was added, and that there will be no changes to cater for Hybrids.

I must have missed that in their consultation plan....

I guess you did 🙃

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