Lets Get Welly Moving releases its options for Wellington Transport

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Lets Get Welly Moving releases its options for Wellington Transport

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#2806566 3-Nov-2021 09:32

MikeB4:
Remember this plan is not for those on this forum's generations. It is for future generations. Its about creating city living, working, playing environment that our Tamariki and beyond can enjoy. It's about providing transport that is friendly to the environment, enables a cleaner, quiet and safer city for alternative personal transport and pedestrians.

It is not about the selfish status quo and the obsession with the motor vehicle. We have selfishly handed a nightmare future to Aotearoa. Lets not continue to to make the same mistakes that have been repeated over and over for the last one hundred years plus that is why we are in the untenable mess we are in now. We need to plan a future where the motor vehicle becomes a rarity. It has been done in many cities successfully and can be done here. This plan will not kill the CBD it will create a new liveable city that is sustainable.

Wellington will always require cars. It is not flat and there are so many homes up very steep hills where busses don’t and can’t go to enable one to connect with the train. Who is going to walk home up a steep hill in a gale force wet Southerly after using light rail at the bottom of the hill. The next generation living on those hills will eventually become old or incapacitated too. Plans need to be made for both young and old in a society and be easy for the commuter.

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#2806588 3-Nov-2021 10:01

Eva888:
MikeB4:

Remember this plan is not for those on this forum's generations. It is for future generations. Its about creating city living, working, playing environment that our Tamariki and beyond can enjoy. It's about providing transport that is friendly to the environment, enables a cleaner, quiet and safer city for alternative personal transport and pedestrians.

It is not about the selfish status quo and the obsession with the motor vehicle. We have selfishly handed a nightmare future to Aotearoa. Lets not continue to to make the same mistakes that have been repeated over and over for the last one hundred years plus that is why we are in the untenable mess we are in now. We need to plan a future where the motor vehicle becomes a rarity. It has been done in many cities successfully and can be done here. This plan will not kill the CBD it will create a new liveable city that is sustainable.

Wellington will always require cars. It is not flat and there are so many homes up very steep hills where busses don’t and can’t go to enable one to connect with the train. Who is going to walk home up a steep hill in a gale force wet Southerly after using light rail at the bottom of the hill. The next generation living on those hills will eventually become old or incapacitated too. Plans need to be made for both young and old in a society and be easy for the commuter.

Hence my comment on page 1 "Getting as many cars out of the city means that access for those who have no option, eg Couriers, Emergency services, folks that due to say disability or travel from areas without public transport can do so efficiently and cleaner. "

The use of the motor vehicle as a means of mass public transport in the city and suburbs to city is inefficient expensive.

shk292

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#2806621 3-Nov-2021 10:50

MikeB4: (snip). We need to plan a future where the motor vehicle becomes a rarity.

Won't electric, shared and possibly self-drive vehicles do this anyway? We're already seeing a rapid acceleration of clean power sources and can expect similar with AI in vehicles. If all your buses and majority of cars were battery/hydrogen powered and computer-guided so that they could operate in dense convoys, why do you need rails? The light rail obsession seems to be fixating on old technology when new tech offers far more flexible solutions

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#2806690 3-Nov-2021 13:09

shk292:

MikeB4: (snip). We need to plan a future where the motor vehicle becomes a rarity.

Won't electric, shared and possibly self-drive vehicles do this anyway? We're already seeing a rapid acceleration of clean power sources and can expect similar with AI in vehicles. If all your buses and majority of cars were battery/hydrogen powered and computer-guided so that they could operate in dense convoys, why do you need rails? The light rail obsession seems to be fixating on old technology when new tech offers far more flexible solutions

Cars be they self drive or other can only take average 3 passengers. With the predicted population growth over the next 50 years our compact city given that it is a dead end funnel will not be able to cope. The numbers travelling into Poneke from the likes of Porirua, Te Awakairangi etc is going to grow considerably and it is happening now. The only way to move these people efficiently is with mass public transport.

allan

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#2806807 3-Nov-2021 16:56

To put a positive spin on Wellington public transport, I have to say that the new NZ Bus CRRC electric buses on the No 2 route are a pleasure to ride in after the clunky old ex-Auckland fleet that route has had to endure since the July 2018 "improvements". It actually makes the commute more or less pleasurable.

GV27

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#2806866 3-Nov-2021 18:51

shk292:

The light rail obsession seems to be fixating on old technology when new tech offers far more flexible solutions

The self-driving option has been floated as the 'do nothing' tech bro solution for about the past six years now. We're still no closer to it being practical or usable for mass tranist.

Plus, as GA points out, having steel on steel results in less wear than huge rubber wheels on the road, which either requires extensive work to support heavy vehicles or just constant resurfacing etc. It's the worst possible solution, but it does let you put off doing anything for another five - ten years because it's always 'just around the corner'.

Geektastic

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#2806997 3-Nov-2021 19:53

They can do what they like. They'll never get me on a bus.

Does it not occur to them that electric cars still need roads and parking and their pollution excuse won't exist anymore then?

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backfiah

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#2807028 3-Nov-2021 21:26

Geektastic: They can do what they like. They'll never get me on a bus.

Does it not occur to them that electric cars still need roads and parking and their pollution excuse won't exist anymore then?

As people above have said - this is about the future for the younger generation, not placating elderly drivers who have caused this mess.

jonherries

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#2807032 3-Nov-2021 21:38

wellygary:
jonherries:

The second part of this is what annoyed me in the plan. Miramar and Kilbirnie have wide streets highly suited and cheaper (no land acquistion costs) for light rail along with a growing density/population and they have cut the options for us? I really struggle to understand that, given it looks like the plan must be to bulldoze plenty of houses on Adelaide Road - it is very narrow from the Countdown through to The Parade. On the plus side, it might make them fix the bike lane in Island Bay eventually.

Jon

Basically light trail is predicated on scaling up the density of the areas around it,

They have concluded that the Tsunami and light soil ( sandy) earthquake risks will stop any major (6 story) intensification in these areas, so ipso facto their is no need for light rail to service these areas. hence the bus lanes ( or the single option BRT)

Not sure how that works given the Island Bay and city tsunami risk and the fact the major fault runs straight up that valley and central govt has just approved more intensification everywhere irregardless of these risks.

Jon

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#2807058 3-Nov-2021 22:39

backfiah:

Geektastic: They can do what they like. They'll never get me on a bus.

Does it not occur to them that electric cars still need roads and parking and their pollution excuse won't exist anymore then?

As people above have said - this is about the future for the younger generation, not placating elderly drivers who have caused this mess.

I think you'll find it was decades of incompetent town planning rather than elderly drivers or indeed any other drivers.

When the young are older and want to drive their electric cars to town, I'm not sure they'll agree that having to share their transport with the public was such a great idea. Maybe they will be so used to wearing masks and living with pandemic diseases they won't crave the safe space of their own vehicle. Who knows?

I am not sure condemning future generations to the misery of public transport when we could have given them roads on which to drive their pollution free Teslas is something they will be overly thrilled with.

Lias

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#2807516 4-Nov-2021 14:04

backfiah:

As people above have said - this is about the future for the younger generation, not placating elderly drivers who have caused this mess.

Ehh I dunno.. Of the not insignificant number of 18-30 year olds I know, while _some_ of them care about the environment, they all care about personal convenience more.

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Dratsab

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#2807634 4-Nov-2021 17:53

Eva888:

sbiddle: I wonder what sort of increase we'd see in PT usage from people commuting into the CBD if we capped all bus fares at say $2 for travel into the CBD? The amount spent on subsidies to cover this would be a fraction of what other solutions would cost.

With taxis and rideshare to and from the airport making up a fairly significant percentage of the ~1400 vehicles per hour through the Mt Vic tunnel at peak times how many of these vehicle journeys would be removed with $3 express bus journeys from the CBD to and from the airport every 10 mins?

Absolutely agree. Cost of public transport is prohibitive with section increases added every few kilometres. Wellington could easily have one capped fare to go to and from all suburbs. It’s a small city and this would encourage more people to use busses than with the convoluted section pricing we have now. It’s cheaper to take the car especially from the furthest suburbs.

I really like flyover light rail over roads with cars beneath as they have in Bangkok. You could even have elevated bike lanes running next to the trains to get bikes safely away from cars below.

What I don’t want is years of consultation and argument costing us ratepayers ever more. Rates are already intolerably high.

I highly doubt that forward thinking ideas such as capping fares to encourage PT uptake would ever get off the ground in Wellington.

In respect of the BTS system in Bangkok - yes it's brilliant! As a relatively frequent visitor to that city (pre covid) for family reasons, it's been great to the see the gradual addition of more stations to the line as time has gone by and the new(ish) rail link extension out to Suvarnabhumi Airport. The best part is it's all automated, runs frequently and covers 24 hours as there's no drivers to pay, and extra capacity is added at (basically) the push of a button. However, I don't think it would suit Wellington, it's an extremely expensive solution and is best suited to high populations.

sbiddle

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#2807813 5-Nov-2021 07:36

Now they want to turn block (presumably) the upper parts of Ghuznee and Dixon Streets to remove access between Taranaki St and The Terrace using these routes.

I just can't think of anything more stupid.. https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/wellington/126884743/wellington-could-pedestrianise-dixon-ghuznee-streets-council-report-suggests

Wellington has spent the last 45 years going out of their way to cripple traffic firstly with the short sighted Terrace Tunnel that was too small and lacked the inner city extension at the time, and then building the Caro Dr / inner city bypass as above ground rather than an underground or cut and cover road. It seems we're still obsessed with wanting to follow that path.

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#2807896 5-Nov-2021 09:01

sbiddle:
Now they want to turn block (presumably) the upper parts of Ghuznee and Dixon Streets to remove access between Taranaki St and The Terrace using these routes.

I just can't think of anything more stupid.. https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/wellington/126884743/wellington-could-pedestrianise-dixon-ghuznee-streets-council-report-suggests

Wellington has spent the last 45 years going out of their way to cripple traffic firstly with the short sighted Terrace Tunnel that was too small and lacked the inner city extension at the time, and then building the Caro Dr / inner city bypass as above ground rather than an underground or cut and cover road. It seems we're still obsessed with wanting to follow that path.

On the one hand they want us to drive non polluting electric cars and on the other no cars at all. I wish they'd learn what consistency means!!

If the cars produce zero emissions, why shouldn't people drive them?

MikeB4

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#2807912 5-Nov-2021 09:45

The answer is simple. Picture a funnel you fill a bottle with, now consider Poneke, it's a funnel with the end capped. You can have 10, 20 lanes in it will always end in a bottleneck. Cars create congestion and funnels hasten that congestion. Get the cars off the road and use alternatives and you no longer have that congestion. Mass public transport and alternative personal transport is the best way to cure city traffic issues especially in the capital.

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