Chinese EVs - would you buy a Chinese made or Chinese branded EV?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Chinese EVs - would you buy a Chinese made or Chinese branded EV?

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tdgeek

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#3121850 30-Aug-2023 12:31

frankv:

Yes, same thing really. There will be issues of some kind or another with Chinese built cars for some number of years. I don't think they'll be at the same state as the Japanese for at least 5 years, but more likely 10 to 20.

To compete, the Chinese will need to sell their cars for considerably less than the Japanese & Koreans. I don't think they'll be cheap enough to tempt me for at least 5 years, maybe never. But I recall the die-hards of the 60s and 70s who vowed and declared they would never buy Japanese, many as much for ideological reasons post WW2 as for quality reasons... I wonder where they are now? Probably most of them are dead.

A quick Google

Germany's major car brands have been producing cars in China for decades.

Yes they operate under supervision I assume, but if China wants to make quality cars, they can. Labour is cheaper, so theoretically they can make a more cost efficient car

alasta

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#3121880 30-Aug-2023 13:34

China is getting very, very good at manufacturing things well. Whether they can do R&D well is a totally different question.

turtleattacks

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#3121884 30-Aug-2023 13:44

alasta:

China is getting very, very good at manufacturing things well. Whether they can do R&D well is a totally different question.

Maybe that's why they are so keen in partnering with Tesla and buying established companies with R&D (Such as Volvo/Polestar)

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alasta

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#3121885 30-Aug-2023 13:58

The Pony, which was Hyundai's first mass export car, was apparently developed with assistance from some former British Leyland engineers who they flew out to South Korea. I guess China is trying to repeat that success, particularly with their acquisition of the former Rover Group assets.

Bung

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#3121910 30-Aug-2023 14:50

Apparently isn't the word. They had 2 Morris Marinas to copy. Front suspension Ford Cortina, engine Mitsubishi. Who needs R&D?

alasta

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#3121924 30-Aug-2023 15:19

They must have been pretty talented to turn a Morris Marina into something half decent.

frankv

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#3121942 30-Aug-2023 15:56

alasta:

China is getting very, very good at manufacturing things well. Whether they can do R&D well is a totally different question.

That is exactly what was said about the Japanese in the 60s... yes, they can make transistor radios, but the transistor was invented in the USA. Yes, they can build good motorbikes, but they didn't invent them. Look at the tinny, lightweight cars they make... nowhere near as good and solid and reliable as a Vauxhall or Morris.

However, Japan never had corruption on the scale that China has.

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Bung

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#3121956 30-Aug-2023 16:28

frankv: Look at the tinny, lightweight cars they make... nowhere near as good and solid and reliable as a Vauxhall or Morris.

However, Japan never had corruption on the scale that China has.

You're mentioning the 60's and good and solid and reliable as a Vauxhall or Morris makes me think you never had to drive one.

Japan may not match China for corruption but there have been plenty of corporate scandals involving cooked books or faked data to save face. Nissan, Olympus, Toshiba and Kobe Steel are a few.

Hammerer

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#3122023 30-Aug-2023 22:25

I would buy a vehicle from any country including China but I would take a hard look at the vehicle design, specs, features, likely performance and reliability.

So, for example, I’d almost certainly avoid LDV/SAIC regarding quality but also because of low sales volumes. I would look at MG which has better vehicles and better local support.

I want to know that servicing and other support is established and operating to ensure customer satisfaction. This is largely a function of sales volume. The more a brand/model has economic benefits to the local organisations then the more likely it will be well supported. A brand probably has to sell a thousand units per annum in NZ to be able to afford to do this. An exception might be some luxury brands where eye-watering service charges offset the low volumes but high depreciation would put me off:

A national network of service agents so wherever I break down there is a realistic probability of getting the vehicle repaired quickly. If there is no local service specialist for a vehicle I am looking to buy then I would not buy it.
A training program for service staff to become expert in the make and models.
A local parts distribution service with a wide range of parts in-country for the model I buy so I don’t have to wait for parts to be shipped from overseas which gets expensive very fast.

Finally, there are the business practices of the brand organisations and, in particular, the local brand representative who will deal with any problems I have:

A history of the brand providing satisfactory solutions when vehicles have components fail early or require recall and repair/replacement. It means a lot to have a distributor resolve CGA issues without waiting for judicial enforcement.
Somewhat important to me, but not so important to many others, will be my assessment of the ethical practices of the organisations. I don’t appreciate lies (e.g. VW “dieselgate”), auto makers removing safety features from models in certain markets such as in Latin America (e.g. Hyundai/Kia), selling models with older less efficient engines (e.g. Nissan) or newer less reliable engines (e.g. Ford eco sport), brands focusing on large heavy vehicles when smaller and lighter vehicles use a lot less fuel (e.g. Ford), and so on.

alasta

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#3122095 31-Aug-2023 08:58

Hammerer:

So, for example, I’d almost certainly avoid LDV/SAIC regarding quality but also because of low sales volumes. I would look at MG which has better vehicles and better local support.

Isn't MG a SAIC brand?

I want to know that servicing and other support is established and operating to ensure customer satisfaction. This is largely a function of sales volume. The more a brand/model has economic benefits to the local organisations then the more likely it will be well supported. A brand probably has to sell a thousand units per annum in NZ to be able to afford to do this.

This is why I tend to stick with Mazdas. I've owned them throughout the last eight years and had only very minor problems which the dealer always fixes promptly with no questions asked, even when there is a shadow of doubt.

I get that this is a tech forum and there are a lot of people on here who like to experiment with bleeding edge technology, but when you're buying an asset worth tens of thousands of dollars you need to have some assurance that you're not taking a huge financial risk.

jonathan18

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#3122115 31-Aug-2023 09:43

alasta:

So to stick with Mazdas. I've owned them throughout the last eight years and had only very minor problems which the dealer always fixes promptly with no questions asked, even when there is a shadow of doubt.

I get that this is a tech forum and there are a lot of people on here who like to experiment with bleeding edge technology, but when you're buying an asset worth tens of thousands of dollars you need to have some assurance that you're not taking a huge financial risk.

I was a big fan of Mazda, having owned a 6 for a number of years. At this point I doubt I'll ever buy another Mazda, given their failure to take EVs seriously, along with nearly every other Japanese car company.

I also think you exaggerate the risk of purchasing Chinese cars. The car we've just ordered has a seven year warranty. I've spoken to other buyers to find out their experiences of dealing with the dealers, and am confident any issues will be managed fine. We're also well past the point of these cars being at the 'bleeding edge', whether it's EVs, Chinese cars or Chinese EVs.

MikeAqua

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#3122137 31-Aug-2023 10:44

jonathan18:

We're also well past the point of these cars being at the 'bleeding edge', whether it's EVs, Chinese cars or Chinese EVs.

Infant formula isn't at the bleeding edge, but ... melamine!

Toothpaste isn't at the bleeding edge but .... antifreeze!

Based on experience processing in China, you have to be on your contractors/workers like grass to ensure shortcuts are not taken or suppliers substituted, for reasons unrelated to production.

Mike

alasta

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#3122158 31-Aug-2023 11:00

jonathan18:

I was a big fan of Mazda, having owned a 6 for a number of years. At this point I doubt I'll ever buy another Mazda, given their failure to take EVs seriously, along with nearly every other Japanese car company.

Lol! I have seen a lot of people predict the demise of the Japanese auto manufacturers and I think you are going to end up with egg on your faces.

The Japanese will get into electric powertrains if and when it's financially viable for mass market consumers. Right now the Koreans and Germans are selling electric vehicles at a $20k+ premium over petrol equivalents even with the government subsidies and there is no way the average driver can get a decent return on that capex when mortgage rates are over 6%. I certainly won't be buying one.

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