Does the luxury EV use case still stack up cost wise?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Does the luxury EV use case still stack up cost wise?

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#3179604 10-Jan-2024 13:38

alasta:

Electric vehicles are a great solution for some use cases, but they really require access to a private garage for charging purposes.

For those that live in apartments and those that can only park on the street, EV ownership is going to be tricky for a bit. I think both of these will improve as EV ownership increases and apartment buildings have to compete with more buildings that do offer EV charging. Street parking should hopefully improve as we start to see more on-street chargers taking advantage of things like street lights/power poles as seen in many European cities now.

For home owners/renters, a garage isn't required though - charging outside in a driveway is fine and done by many.

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#3179998 10-Jan-2024 16:01

I have recently made the switch from an SRT Jeep to a Model Y

I spent ages on the fence, but the performance of the dual motor Y P just was too good to pass up, so I'm not in it for any other reason than it's fast, very fast.

I pay $0.23 a kWh for charging overnight with Electric Kiwi, and I get an hour for free; I have a 32kW charger at home, so I get around 8% charge from that hour.

The Tesla added a whopping $126.55 to my insurance.

I have owned the vehicle for about a month, and in that time, I have covered 2,276km, with my charger putting 159kWh into the car; even if I remove the free hour, that is still only $36.57 in power costs. I have charged once at a supercharger ($14), and I have used a few free chargers at shopping centres around Tauranga; I've had to give a few sceptic HSV owners (my neighbours) a practical demonstration of how their pride and joy can be left for dead by my 'toy car', so my consumption of juice per KM is going to be pretty high. If you had a regular car say a Mazda CX5 (Wife's old car) consuming 8.8l per 100k, you would have burnt 200 litres of fuel covering those KMs at $2.50. That's $500 of fuel.

So if you say that I am saving, say, $400 per 2000km, yeah, I have a running cost saving over the CX5 of $2400 a year.

I'll save in servicing more than the RUCs will cost me if they get brought in, but that is a BIG if. While I think EVs should be paying their way to maintain our 'roads'. It will get tricky for PHEVs, how are they going to charge them appropriately? A lot of voters who bought them, and of course all of them will claim they are paying twice! The previous government were talking about removing user charges from all fuels and making everyone pay RUCs. However, the counter to that, is that if the level of suspected fraud from Diesel Vehicles carries over to Petrol, the government will lose from a revenue perspective, and that doesn't even include the boaties.

While I am not sure about tyres, having asked other owners, no one has mentioned to me, 'I've really noticed I'm putting more tyres'.

The battery will need replacing, I have no doubt, in 8 to 10 years. (just after the warranty expires) So, I need to allocate $1000 of my theoretical savings annually to battery replacement provision, but I would rather have that 1k in my bank thanks. Plus by that time, the capacity of component cells would have more than doubled, given the current rate of improvement, so there would be a big kick-up in the range department, or a significant drop in price. If I keep it that long, which I doubt.

Honestly, the biggest downer on owning an electric car, is asking all the anti-ev people to show me on the dolly where the bad EV touched them.

It's one of those things. It's new, and if you want it to work out for you, it will, and if you don't think it will, then it won't.

shk292

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#3180061 10-Jan-2024 16:24

2kadmin:

I have owned the vehicle for about a month, and in that time, I have covered 2,276km, with my charger putting 159kWh into the car; even if I remove the free hour, that is still only $36.57 in power costs. I have charged once at a supercharger ($14), and I have used a few free chargers at shopping centres around Tauranga; I've had to give a few sceptic HSV owners (my neighbours) a practical demonstration of how their pride and joy can be left for dead by my 'toy car', so my consumption of juice per KM is going to be pretty high. If you had a regular car say a Mazda CX5 (Wife's old car) consuming 8.8l per 100k, you would have burnt 200 litres of fuel covering those KMs at $2.50. That's $500 of fuel.

So if you say that I am saving, say, $400 per 2000km, yeah, I have a running cost saving over the CX5 of $2400 a year.

I'll save in servicing more than the RUCs will cost me if they get brought in, but that is a BIG if. While I think EVs should be paying their way to maintain our 'roads'. It will get tricky for PHEVs, how are they going to charge them appropriately? A lot of voters who bought them, and of course all of them will claim they are paying twice! The previous government were talking about removing user charges from all fuels and making everyone pay RUCs. However, the counter to that, is that if the level of suspected fraud from Diesel Vehicles carries over to Petrol, the government will lose from a revenue perspective, and that doesn't even include the boaties.

While I am not sure about tyres, having asked other owners, no one has mentioned to me, 'I've really noticed I'm putting more tyres'.

The battery will need replacing, I have no doubt, in 8 to 10 years. (just after the warranty expires) So, I need to allocate $1000 of my theoretical savings annually to battery replacement provision, but I would rather have that 1k in my bank thanks. Plus by that time, the capacity of component cells would have more than doubled, given the current rate of improvement, so there would be a big kick-up in the range department, or a significant drop in price. If I keep it that long, which I doubt.

Honestly, the biggest downer on owning an electric car, is asking all the anti-ev people to show me on the dolly where the bad EV touched them.

It's one of those things. It's new, and if you want it to work out for you, it will, and if you don't think it will, then it won't.

I have nothing against EVs and will probably own one within 5years. However, what you ignore above is the cost of capital (say 5%) and depreciation (10% being very conservative). So your 90k MY is costing you at least $13.5k per year even if it never leaves your driveway.
This is how EVs don’t stack up financially when compared to similar spec ICE or even hybrid cars.

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#3180124 10-Jan-2024 17:18

shk292:
2kadmin:

I have owned the vehicle for about a month, and in that time, I have covered 2,276km, with my charger putting 159kWh into the car; even if I remove the free hour, that is still only $36.57 in power costs. I have charged once at a supercharger ($14), and I have used a few free chargers at shopping centres around Tauranga; I've had to give a few sceptic HSV owners (my neighbours) a practical demonstration of how their pride and joy can be left for dead by my 'toy car', so my consumption of juice per KM is going to be pretty high. If you had a regular car say a Mazda CX5 (Wife's old car) consuming 8.8l per 100k, you would have burnt 200 litres of fuel covering those KMs at $2.50. That's $500 of fuel.

So if you say that I am saving, say, $400 per 2000km, yeah, I have a running cost saving over the CX5 of $2400 a year.

I'll save in servicing more than the RUCs will cost me if they get brought in, but that is a BIG if. While I think EVs should be paying their way to maintain our 'roads'. It will get tricky for PHEVs, how are they going to charge them appropriately? A lot of voters who bought them, and of course all of them will claim they are paying twice! The previous government were talking about removing user charges from all fuels and making everyone pay RUCs. However, the counter to that, is that if the level of suspected fraud from Diesel Vehicles carries over to Petrol, the government will lose from a revenue perspective, and that doesn't even include the boaties.

While I am not sure about tyres, having asked other owners, no one has mentioned to me, 'I've really noticed I'm putting more tyres'.

The battery will need replacing, I have no doubt, in 8 to 10 years. (just after the warranty expires) So, I need to allocate $1000 of my theoretical savings annually to battery replacement provision, but I would rather have that 1k in my bank thanks. Plus by that time, the capacity of component cells would have more than doubled, given the current rate of improvement, so there would be a big kick-up in the range department, or a significant drop in price. If I keep it that long, which I doubt.

Honestly, the biggest downer on owning an electric car, is asking all the anti-ev people to show me on the dolly where the bad EV touched them.

It's one of those things. It's new, and if you want it to work out for you, it will, and if you don't think it will, then it won't.

I have nothing against EVs and will probably own one within 5years. However, what you ignore above is the cost of capital (say 5%) and depreciation (10% being very conservative). So your 90k MY is costing you at least $13.5k per year even if it never leaves your driveway.
This is how EVs don’t stack up financially when compared to similar spec ICE or even hybrid cars.

Sorry, this isn't true for performance vehicles.

I would have spent more on an ICE vehicle, and if you can show me an ICE vehicle that can make the 0-100 dash in 3.7 seconds and doesn't depreciate like a weighted lead balloon, I'll buy one tomorrow.

So, winning on capital value, winning on running costs, and I'd be happy if it depreciates at the rate you suggest. But you are forgetting EVs are drastically affecting the depreciation of ICE cars now. Your comment about being in the market for one within 5 years kinda makes this point. We have just sold my better half's ICE car, 80k new, 2 years old, 15k on the clock in excellent condition, sold for 57k. The trade-in offer was 52k!! Why? "Everyone wants hybrids or EVs now", this was from a dealer selling us a new ICE. Personally, I wouldn't want to be trying to sell an ICE car in a few years with petrol prices linked to carbon emissions, but she likes what she likes. But if depreciation is a concern, no one should ever buy a car.

As I said, no matter whether you think EVs will work for you or they won't, you are almost certainly correct.

michaelmurfy

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#3180129 10-Jan-2024 17:33

@2kadmin That EK rate is actually rather expensive. I'd recommend comparing again against other providers (look at Flick Electric + Octopus Energy) as you'll likely save money. Once upon a time EK were good but their Peak / Shoulder rates (and timing - considering it includes weekends) is rather expensive and the hour of free power even if you go hard out doesn't make up for it. I don't know anyone who own an EV who are with EK anymore.

I know this isn't the thread for it but I consider it to be somewhat on-topic of the main discussion that your power provider when you own an EV can make all the difference with your savings.

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mudguard

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#3180131 10-Jan-2024 17:46

2kadmin:

I would have spent more on an ICE vehicle, and if you can show me an ICE vehicle that can make the 0-100 dash in 3.7 seconds and doesn't depreciate like a weighted lead balloon, I'll buy one tomorrow.

It is a little bit old though, no Android or Apple Carplay.

tdgeek

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#3180146 10-Jan-2024 18:20

The issue with these threads is that you get rose coloured glasses from both sides. So its not easy to get an objective argument.

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#3180149 10-Jan-2024 18:26

mudguard:

2kadmin:

I would have spent more on an ICE vehicle, and if you can show me an ICE vehicle that can make the 0-100 dash in 3.7 seconds and doesn't depreciate like a weighted lead balloon, I'll buy one tomorrow.

It is a little bit old though, no Android or Apple Carplay.

lol, ironically Tesla’s don’t have CarPlay or Andriod auto. Love it, but not likely to get an 8 year warranty on that! Plus I assume it’s under 90k and comfortably seats 4, steers itself on highways? Not that any of that matters.

Also being used it’s already depreciated like crazy, and I doubt I could reliably do 12k a year in it, and if I did that depreciation would be back again to bite me.

tdgeek

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#3180150 10-Jan-2024 18:26

mudguard:

2kadmin:

I would have spent more on an ICE vehicle, and if you can show me an ICE vehicle that can make the 0-100 dash in 3.7 seconds and doesn't depreciate like a weighted lead balloon, I'll buy one tomorrow.

It is a little bit old though, no Android or Apple Carplay.

No time for tapping on screens :-)

Reminds we when we went to Smokey Mountains. Followed a new and new profile Mustang for miles. Clarkson from Top Gear reviewed one. Brakes were crap that was crap but he loved it, a true muscle car. Im a Viper fan, not great around bends but it blew the Ferrari away in a straight line in OZ racing series

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#3180166 10-Jan-2024 19:08

tdgeek:

The issue with these threads is that you get rose coloured glasses from both sides. So its not easy to get an objective argument.

This is very accurate, very few people say, you know what, I bought the wrong vehicle.

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#3180168 10-Jan-2024 19:13

tdgeek:

No time for tapping on screens :-)

Reminds we when we went to Smokey Mountains. Followed a new and new profile Mustang for miles. Clarkson from Top Gear reviewed one. Brakes were crap that was crap but he loved it, a true muscle car. Im a Viper fan, not great around bends but it blew the Ferrari away in a straight line in OZ racing series

True the best cars tend to be the most crazy.. Escort Cosworth, bonkers, but again Clarkson loved them.

I think if I was going to blow $180k on the cheapest McLaren on trade me a Mp4-12, it would be garaged and would be weekend dry usage only. Wouldn't be taking that to Pack and Save, or even thinking about putting 12k a year on the clock!

Sorry for Hijacking the thread OP

alasta

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#3180169 10-Jan-2024 19:16

tdgeek:

The issue with these threads is that you get rose coloured glasses from both sides. So its not easy to get an objective argument.

I've also noticed that advocates for electric powertrains are people with ideal use cases who assume that every vehicle owner is in the same situation. My car doesn't get used daily, does minimal urban mileage, and I have no charging facilities at home. I have no doubt that electric vehicles work well for a lot of people, but not for me.

mudguard

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#3180172 10-Jan-2024 19:20

2kadmin:

lol, ironically Tesla’s don’t have CarPlay or Andriod auto. Love it, but not likely to get an 8 year warranty on that! Plus I assume it’s under 90k and comfortably seats 4, steers itself on highways? Not that any of that matters.

Also being used it’s already depreciated like crazy, and I doubt I could reliably do 12k a year in it, and if I did that depreciation would be back again to bite me.

Now now, you didn't specify any of that the first time. Off you go, buy the McLaren. Comfortably seats three. 😁

I didn't know that about Carplay/Android Auto. That's a bit weird! I drive a lot of rental cars, and for the most part I couldn't care less what they give me as long as it has Android Auto.

Actually that's not true. I had an MG HS and it's the only rental car I've wanted to take straight back. Had some really weird quirks

mudguard

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#3180173 10-Jan-2024 19:22

alasta:

tdgeek:

The issue with these threads is that you get rose coloured glasses from both sides. So its not easy to get an objective argument.

I've also noticed that advocates for electric powertrains are people with ideal use cases who assume that every vehicle owner is in the same situation. My car doesn't get used daily, does minimal urban mileage, and I have no charging facilities at home. I have no doubt that electric vehicles work well for a lot of people, but not for me.

I'm also not currently a candidate. I do 40,000kms a year for work (I provide the work car). I'd love an EV if I had a normal job.

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#3180175 10-Jan-2024 19:31

mudguard:

2kadmin:

lol, ironically Tesla’s don’t have CarPlay or Andriod auto. Love it, but not likely to get an 8 year warranty on that! Plus I assume it’s under 90k and comfortably seats 4, steers itself on highways? Not that any of that matters.

Also being used it’s already depreciated like crazy, and I doubt I could reliably do 12k a year in it, and if I did that depreciation would be back again to bite me.

Now now, you didn't specify any of that the first time. Off you go, buy the McLaren. Comfortably seats three. 😁

I didn't know that about Carplay/Android Auto. That's a bit weird! I drive a lot of rental cars, and for the most part I couldn't care less what they give me as long as it has Android Auto.

Actually that's not true. I had an MG HS and it's the only rental car I've wanted to take straight back. Had some really weird quirks

Sure find me a McClaren F1 for under 90k and i'd buy it. Last one sold for 20M!!

Yeah you are forced to use there OS, so no waze which is a touch annoying, plus there is whole Elon Musk thing which is a bigger issue in itself!

The MG have some scary lane keep assist going on, and no idea on the screen. So with you there!

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