Does the luxury EV use case still stack up cost wise?

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Aaroona

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#311333 7-Jan-2024 11:24

I’m about to sell my ICE vehicle and have been shopping around for different options.
The Tesla model 3 LR and BMW i4 M40 have come up as options, different price brackets, but the question remains the same in terms of day to day running.

Based on fuel being (nominally) 2.80/litre, doing around 10,000km a year, and consuming around 9l/100km and a nominal 30c/kW at home (accounting for mixed super charging) and a 18kWh/100km (real world usage based on this weekend) , it seems that the insurance premiums and the very likely RUC’s seem to eat up any savings there were by charging instead of using petrol.

My insurance rates from my current performance car go from 1600 to 3200 per year for either EV.
Then the RUC’s will possibly see $760 a year per 10,000km.

Based on the calculations above just for fuel cost, it was suggesting there would be a 2800ish savings per year, but account for the new insurance premium, potential additional wear on tires for more weight, RUC’s, it seems less like the usual “omg EV is so much cheaper than fuel to run” story than what has been the story lately.

The cars used as comparison either give almost like for like performance or in the Tesla’s case, more performance than my current vehicle.

Is there something I am missing here or something glaringly obvious in my calculations I’m stuffing up??

I know there is also potential maintenance costs to factor is, but not sure what that looks like for an EV.

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#3178656 7-Jan-2024 12:11

You won't save money with EV unless you have cheap charging and you drive many kms to "pay back" the extra costs of buying and you must also factor in depreciation.

Might be easier to save buying used depending on the math. Eg Nissan Leaf, even then there are some people who lost money on depreciation buying used Leaf, but that will be the easiest EV to break even or gain money if you drive far enough (assuming cheap electricity).

michaelmurfy

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#3178660 7-Jan-2024 12:29

I would recommend test driving one and seeing for yourself.

I'm a Model 3 Long Range owner myself (previous version before Highland though) and would never go back to a petrol vehicle. I've driven all over New Zealand and done almost 50,000km in 2 years. For those 50,000km here are my costs:

Maintenance: $0 - barely anything actually goes wrong with them and with Tesla they come to you most of the time too.
Tyres: $2600 (I had a tyre get slashed by what I can assume was an anti EV idiot so was forced to replace a pair - total cost quoted here is for all 4 along with 2x Alignments).
Tyre Rotations: $80
Charging: $1,628.17 (shop around for power companies as my overnight rate is 14c/kWh and I schedule my car then).
Fuel cost compared to my previous car: $16,706.70 (based at 8L/100km, $3/L as my previous car took premium).
Insurance: $1800/yr full cover at agreed value ($88,000) including excess free glass and full vehicle replacement in the first 3 years (Star Insurance).

The charging figure includes public charging too. I'm very good at tracking the cost of all charges (Tessie will automatically calculate my at home charging).

Compared to my previous car the acceleration, responsiveness, ability to preheat / cool the cars cabin from the app etc is just simply awesome. With RUC's coming in I think I calculated it as paying around 40c/L in fuel with my at home charging. I'll tell you now, I'm never going back to ICE.

I wouldn't call them a luxury car, I would call them a car fit for a purpose. There are so many of them on the road the luxury car status has long gone. Advantage of the Tesla over the BMW is no dealer to deal with (the dealer network sucks with EV's as they try and "maintain" them still to keep the warranty) and also the Tesla Supercharger network.

Also, as a final example. I broke a seat clip and thought "crap, this is going to cost me" so I booked a tyre rotation in the Tesla app ($40ish and they come to me for it) and asked them for another seat clip. The total bill? Here it is:

Edit: it was 3 Cents so basically didn't cost me anything as I was getting a rotation done regardless.

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alasta

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#3178666 7-Jan-2024 12:45

Batman: You won't save money with EV unless you have cheap charging and you drive many kms to "pay back" the extra costs of buying and you must also factor in depreciation.

Depreciation is a really big factor here. The higher capital value of an electric vehicle means that the depreciation will be higher in $ terms, even if it's the same in % terms.

Advocates of electric powertrains theorise that demand for second hand petrol powered vehicles is going to drop dramatically in the coming years, hence the depreciation rate of electric vehicles is expected to be relatively lower. In reality there doesn't seem to be any objective evidence to support this theory, with some big rental fleet operators starting to move away from electric vehicles due to concerns around depreciation and repairability.

Essentially depreciation is a big unknown and you should think of it as a long term financial risk if you are cost conscious.

michaelmurfy

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#3178668 7-Jan-2024 13:02

alasta: Advocates of electric powertrains theorise that demand for second hand petrol powered vehicles is going to drop dramatically in the coming years, hence the depreciation rate of electric vehicles is expected to be relatively lower. In reality there doesn't seem to be any objective evidence to support this theory, with some big rental fleet operators starting to move away from electric vehicles due to concerns around depreciation and repairability.

Yeah but the same goes with any car. You're talking about Hertz who scaled back their purchase of Teslas due to Tesla cutting the price of their cars. The dropping price of electric vehicles is good for everyone except the shareholders of rental companies. I paid $88,000 for my M3 Long Range, didn't get the rebate (because this is the car I wanted) and am I mad that I'll only make maybe $65,000 now? No. I saved that in fuel and have absolutely loved the car for that time also.

Then there are Taxi drivers damaging their fleet on top of this and that is where the damage statement is coming from:

Part of the problem is linked to Hertz’s plans to rent EVs to ridehail drivers. Of the 100,000 Tesla acquired by Hertz, half were to be allocated to Uber drivers as part of a deal with the ridehail company. And drivers said they loved the Teslas! But Uber drivers also tend to drive their vehicles into the ground. This higher rate of utilization can lead to a lot of damage — certainly more than Hertz was anticipating.

Full story here: https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/27/23934691/hertz-tesla-uber-ev-plans-damage-repair-price-cuts

Bung

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#3178721 7-Jan-2024 14:10

michaelmurfy:

Also, as a final example. I broke a seat clip and thought "crap, this is going to cost me" so I booked a tyre rotation in the Tesla app ($40ish and they come to me for it) and asked them for another seat clip. The total bill?

You should have asked for a bag full at that price. It must be a mistake. That clip is typically US$5 or equivalent.

Dingbatt

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#3178725 7-Jan-2024 14:32

Justifying an EV on the basis of cost savings is difficult at the moment. The high capital outlay, depreciation and insurance premiums aren’t really offset by the saving in energy or maintenance costs. With RUCs about to be charged the financial case becomes even weaker.
You really need to have another reason to want an EV. Whether that is environmental or some other reason, that is what you’re paying to do. In my case, I really like the way EVs drive and am willing to accept the inconvenience that charging and range sometimes causes for the enjoyment I get from driving my Model 3.

If the OP already drives a performance car for the joy of it, then the justification for an EV becomes easier.

I agree with @michaelmurfy though, it would be difficult to go back to an ICE vehicle now.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

michaelmurfy

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#3178727 7-Jan-2024 14:43

Bung: You should have asked for a bag full at that price. It must be a mistake. That clip is typically US$5 or equivalent.

You mean ask for a bag full of clips for the 3c I paid for it? You missed the point. It was 3c (as in 3 cents) for the clip on top of a tyre rotation I booked.

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Bung

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#3178787 7-Jan-2024 15:41

I didn't miss the point at all. 3 cents is an imaginary price. The dealer probably doesn't stock them for sale but the workshop break so many they've got a bulk supply.

FineWine

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#3178789 7-Jan-2024 15:52

Did you say Luxury. How about the Bentayga Mulliner. A Bentley V6 Hybrid SUV 😀

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

tdgeek

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#3178814 7-Jan-2024 18:44

michaelmurfy:

Maintenance: $0 - barely anything actually goes wrong with them and with Tesla they come to you most of the time too.

Not dismissing your post as I love EVs but they dont work for us , yet

Ive read many many times here that they are almost maintenance free, yes I get that. Brakes, tyres, wiper fluid. But others here have posted $700 (IIRC) annual servicing fees? Thats Tesla, unsure of other brands.

michaelmurfy

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#3178821 7-Jan-2024 19:47

@tdgeek sorry, washer fluid costs money but I’m fully serious about them being basically maintenance free. What however doesn’t help is the dealer network (that doesn’t affect Teslas) saying you must do an annual maintenance to keep the warranty which frankly is pretty darn pointless.

But you can ask any Tesla owner what maintenance is like. Brakes will likely outlast the vehicle as they rarely get used (you use regen instead) but other than that washer fluid, tyres (and tyre rotations) and wiper blades is seriously all you need. Tesla have their maintenance recommendations here too: https://www.tesla.com/en_nz/support/vehicle-maintenance

Batman

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#3178846 8-Jan-2024 00:34

michaelmurfy:

But you can ask any Tesla owner what maintenance is like. Brakes will likely outlast the vehicle as they rarely get used (you use regen instead) but other than that washer fluid, tyres (and tyre rotations) and wiper blades is seriously all you need. Tesla have their maintenance recommendations here too: https://www.tesla.com/en_nz/support/vehicle-maintenance

had my Nissan Leaf for 3 years, gets driven every day, and have spent $0.00 on maintenance

not one cent

tdgeek

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#3178850 8-Jan-2024 06:28

michaelmurfy:

@tdgeek sorry, washer fluid costs money but I’m fully serious about them being basically maintenance free. What however doesn’t help is the dealer network (that doesn’t affect Teslas) saying you must do an annual maintenance to keep the warranty which frankly is pretty darn pointless.

But you can ask any Tesla owner what maintenance is like. Brakes will likely outlast the vehicle as they rarely get used (you use regen instead) but other than that washer fluid, tyres (and tyre rotations) and wiper blades is seriously all you need. Tesla have their maintenance recommendations here too: https://www.tesla.com/en_nz/support/vehicle-maintenance

Yeah that was my point, someone here posted a $700 annual servicing cost that they had to stump up with

Jase2985

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#3178851 8-Jan-2024 06:40

Batman:

michaelmurfy:

But you can ask any Tesla owner what maintenance is like. Brakes will likely outlast the vehicle as they rarely get used (you use regen instead) but other than that washer fluid, tyres (and tyre rotations) and wiper blades is seriously all you need. Tesla have their maintenance recommendations here too: https://www.tesla.com/en_nz/support/vehicle-maintenance

had my Nissan Leaf for 3 years, gets driven every day, and have spent $0.00 on maintenance

not one cent

so no windscreen wipers? no wiper fluid?

morrisk

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#3178852 8-Jan-2024 07:18

This type of discussion has happened a number of times here on Geekzone over the last 5 or more years.

My view has always been the same - the change from ICE to EV is needed as one of the actions we must take to try to reduce emissions in the hope of slowing global warming.

Given the impact that global warming is already happening and the costs associated with these impacts, the costs/savings and benefits/disadvantages of EV versus ICE at an individual level are insignificant.

If you can afford to make the change from ICE to EV then do it.

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