Zero Tolerance Limits now

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568 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2552227 30-Aug-2020 07:35

Handle9:
MarkH67: With no tolerance the expectation must be that every driver on the road can maintain a speed to an exact amount +/- 0kph - that just isn't possible.

If you aren't a good enough driver to drive at the speed limit you can always drive slower. No one will give you a ticket for doing 90km/hr in a 100km/hr zone.

No one will give you a ticket for doing 90 in a zone with a limit of 100, but you may well piss off the queue of cars stuck behind you, which is proven to cause dangerous over taking and more loss of life.

The day Police and Government realise that speed alone is not what is causing deaths on our roads will be a great day.

MikeB4

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#2552228 30-Aug-2020 07:40

gmball:

No one will give you a ticket for doing 90 in a zone with a limit of 100, but you may well piss off the queue of cars stuck behind you, which is proven to cause dangerous over taking and more loss of life.

The day Police and Government realise that speed alone is not what is causing deaths on our roads will be a great day.

For a lot of travelers on the road 90Kph is their legal maximum. Also, if you travel say a 60k ride at 90Kph as opposed to 100Kph what is the travel time difference?

Varkk

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Ultimate Geek

#2552229 30-Aug-2020 08:13

stevob:

I'd always thought the "tolerance" was to account for variations in speedometer accuracy?

My current car speedo reads about 10% lower than the speed shown on a GPS, and my old car it was about 5% less.

If my speedo says I'm doing 100kph Im actually doing 91-92kph - under the limit all good. If speedo says I'm doing 110kph, still all good?

Removing the ability to use discretion also removes ability to exercise common sense imho.

I also think it is to account for the uncertainty in the speed measurement from the speed guns. I think previously someone dug out the documentation for the radar guns the police use and found that if a car is traveling at 100km/h the speed gun could record it as high as 107. certainly would be grounds to challenge any ticket for only a couple of km/h over the limit.

eracode

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#2552230 30-Aug-2020 08:19

MikeB4:

gmball:

No one will give you a ticket for doing 90 in a zone with a limit of 100, but you may well piss off the queue of cars stuck behind you, which is proven to cause dangerous over taking and more loss of life.

The day Police and Government realise that speed alone is not what is causing deaths on our roads will be a great day.

For a lot of travelers on the road 90Kph is their legal maximum. Also, if you travel say a 60k ride at 90Kph as opposed to 100Kph what is the travel time difference?

Less than two minutes.

Edit: Sorry @coffeebaron is right with four minutes - I incorrectly calced it at 100 v 95 rather than 90.

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coffeebaron

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#2552231 30-Aug-2020 08:30

eracode:
MikeB4:

For a lot of travelers on the road 90Kph is their legal maximum. Also, if you travel say a 60k ride at 90Kph as opposed to 100Kph what is the travel time difference?

Less than two minutes.

4 minutes
I did a quick calculation and a drop from 100 to 90 speed limit would equate to me working an extra one business week a year. I think I'll rather spend the extra week on holiday!

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scuwp

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#2552233 30-Aug-2020 08:35

Varkk:
stevob:

I'd always thought the "tolerance" was to account for variations in speedometer accuracy?

My current car speedo reads about 10% lower than the speed shown on a GPS, and my old car it was about 5% less.

If my speedo says I'm doing 100kph Im actually doing 91-92kph - under the limit all good. If speedo says I'm doing 110kph, still all good?

Removing the ability to use discretion also removes ability to exercise common sense imho.

I also think it is to account for the uncertainty in the speed measurement from the speed guns. I think previously someone dug out the documentation for the radar guns the police use and found that if a car is traveling at 100km/h the speed gun could record it as high as 107. certainly would be grounds to challenge any ticket for only a couple of km/h over the limit.

When I was in the job many moons ago the devices were regularly tested and certified and were accurate to +/- 2 km/h. I am sure technology has improved since then. Then there is always the Doppler effect, which will mean it's highly unlikely to read high. Combined with speedometers that are designed to read low, if anything police speed readings would be conservative.

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#2552235 30-Aug-2020 08:45

I got flashed for the first time in 15 years Normally the car is 10k slower than the speed markers thought I was just over 105 guess it will be an expensive one. Today I actually used cruise control 100 k is ridiculous on parts of SH2 traffic normally sits at 110. They would of made a fortune this weekend

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MikeB4

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#2552236 30-Aug-2020 08:48

A few ago I changed my mindset to the “the journey is the destination” it change my style of driving and made trips so much more enjoyable.

snnet

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#2552245 30-Aug-2020 09:44

There are recent changes on country roads around me where the speed limit has dropped from 80km/h (it used to be open road) to 60km/h for a stretch of what seems like 20km, the majority of the road is double yellow lined, where the limit has dropped there are no schools or significant intersections - I think this area in particular will generate a lot of cash for police thanks to AT lowering the limit. Several times drivers behind me have been extremely aggressive, tail gating to the point I can't see their headlights, nowhere to pull over etc.

I think more common sense needs to be taken into account than what appears to be "Karens" lowering the speed limit significantly for no apparent reason - I travel this route at least a few times a week and can't recall any accidents along the path the limit has been reduced for many many years.

In the case of this route I would agree that not being able to have any tolerance (which requires a LOT of concentration and checking the speedo more than the road on this route) WILL cause more accidents. It certainly makes travelling it a lot less enjoyable with the tailgaters behind you.

Yes, I have considered changing my route, and even though it adds significant time to me journey I do bypass this one where I can.

k1w1k1d

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#2552246 30-Aug-2020 09:45

Scuwp. "Combined with speedometers that are designed to read low,"

From the AA.

"First and foremost, speedos in most vehicles are designed to over-estimate the speed of travel. International law has long required modern cars to overstate true speed. The applicable standard for many vehicles sold in NZ is a European standard that specifies that speedometers must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed, or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount of more than 10 per cent plus 4km/h.

What does this mean in real driving terms? Well, another way to look at it is, at a true speed of 90km/h, the speedo must read no less than 90km/h and no more than 103km/h."

In other words if you are driving at 100kph on the speedo, your actual speed could be anywhere between 87-100kph. At a speedo reading of 100kph my work Toyota is actually travelling at 94kph.

My concern is that people may spend more time looking at the speedo and less time watching the road. Also motorists using GPS to travel at 100kph may get annoyed by motorists travelling up to 10kph slower. We all know that annoyed motorists make silly decisions!

viprenz

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Wannabe Geek

#2552317 30-Aug-2020 11:36

Police Lidar/Radar is considered calibrated if it's within -3% or +2% (USA anyway, can't find NZ). My understanding was the leeway was always there to guarantee you were exceeding the limit. Zero tolerance means the potential for them to be handing out tickets to people who were within the limit.

Batman

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#2552320 30-Aug-2020 11:42

viprenz:
Police Lidar/Radar is considered calibrated if it's within -3% or +2% (USA anyway, can't find NZ). My understanding was the leeway was always there to guarantee you were exceeding the limit. Zero tolerance means the potential for them to be handing out tickets to people who were within the limit.

If the calibration is truly 2-3 % then the effective speed before you are ticketed should be 104kph.

Which makes sense as previously it was 104 during certain periods.

But radars have no error now eh.

voltuard

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Geek

#2552321 30-Aug-2020 11:44

I guess cops will exercise the normal discretion they always have (even if they have been told not to...), speed cameras not so much.

Batman

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#2552325 30-Aug-2020 11:53

I had some mates who were tickets at 101kph during one of the previous zero tolerance periods where the speed was unspecified.

But as you said, Ymmv.

I'm sure there'll be a website where you record the speed you got a ticket at and you could produce some graphs and charts for location, day of the week, time of day etc lol.

Oblivian

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#2552332 30-Aug-2020 11:59

Precisely.

Everyone is focusing on the exacts.

Those exacts are not changing.

There's no need to debate them or accuracies etc.

Only the policy where if you are physically spoken to by an officer. They no longer can slap your wrist and send you on. But are obligated to write you up.

Or keep the radar reading. Rather than drop it 5 to keep you between fine brackets.

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