Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
Obraik
2123 posts

Uber Geek


  #2915883 19-May-2022 09:50
Send private message

Wheelbarrow01:

 

My two cents would be that we know many low income families drive around in an old barely roadworthy gas guzzler because that is all they can afford. Something like a 6 cylinder Commodore or Falcon etc. They may have had the same car for 10 years or more.

 

They likely don't service it because it costs too much, or they do the bare minimum (maybe dad [or mom] does an oil change at home using generic oil & filters from the likes of Supercheap). 

 

They run the tyres down to minimum tread, then buy budget second hand replacements.

 

They don't bother with insurance (or only have 3rd party at best) as their $1000-$2000 clunker is not worth insuring - or because they simply can't afford it. But parts are cheap so if they ding it, they can buy a second hand indicator cluster or a window for a few bucks usually. If it breaks down, they usually have a mate who can work on it (or they watch DIY vids on youTube) because old cars are way less complex and therefore relatively easy to work on.

 

Now throw that family into a brand new or near new $35,000 car (or even a $20k car). Yes it's cheaper to buy with this magical subsidy, but can they afford the repayments? Can they afford the warranty servicing? Can they afford the insurance? If they can't afford the insurance and the car is in a fender bender, can they afford a $500 headlight or a $1500 windscreen? If it's written off and they default on the government lease payments, who picks up the tab? The +$75k salary brigade?

 

What I am saying is that an old gas guzzler may look expensive to run on the surface, but scratch a little deeper and it's actually very cheap "cash up front" motoring. Some low income families could be suckered into this scheme only to realise too late that it's actually a financial millstone around their neck.

 

It would probably also pay to remember that for every low income family who can't afford an efficient $20k car, there's probably another family who can afford it, but actively chooses not to waste their income financing a depreciating asset - even if it seems like a good deal.

 

 

As you indicated earlier in your post, an old "gas guzzler" is only cheap to run because of all the necessary things being ignored to use it. 

 

Just because $35k is the limit doesn't mean that they have to buy a $35k car (nor does it have to be new). At the moment there are plenty of Leaf options from $6k - if they do indeed get $10k for their trade in to the government then they could get a replacement EV for $0. Is a $10k Leaf suitable for everyone? No, they'll have around 80-100km of range so if frequent long distance driving is required then it's not going to work. However for the majority that are using their car predominantly to drop the kids off at school and get to and from work any Leaf is going to be more than adequate.





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits




Geektastic
17943 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2915892 19-May-2022 10:11
Send private message

Wheelbarrow01:

My two cents would be that we know many low income families drive around in an old barely roadworthy gas guzzler because that is all they can afford. Something like a 6 cylinder Commodore or Falcon etc. They may have had the same car for 10 years or more.


They likely don't service it because it costs too much, or they do the bare minimum (maybe dad [or mom] does an oil change at home using generic oil & filters from the likes of Supercheap). 


They run the tyres down to minimum tread, then buy budget second hand replacements.


They don't bother with insurance (or only have 3rd party at best) as their $1000-$2000 clunker is not worth insuring - or because they simply can't afford it. But parts are cheap so if they ding it, they can buy a second hand indicator cluster or a window for a few bucks usually. If it breaks down, they usually have a mate who can work on it (or they watch DIY vids on youTube) because old cars are way less complex and therefore relatively easy to work on.


Now throw that family into a brand new or near new $35,000 car (or even a $20k car). Yes it's cheaper to buy with this magical subsidy, but can they afford the repayments? Can they afford the warranty servicing? Can they afford the insurance? If they can't afford the insurance and the car is in a fender bender, can they afford a $500 headlight or a $1500 windscreen? If it's written off and they default on the government lease payments, who picks up the tab? The +$75k salary brigade?


What I am saying is that an old gas guzzler may look expensive to run on the surface, but scratch a little deeper and it's actually very cheap "cash up front" motoring. Some low income families could be suckered into this scheme only to realise too late that it's actually a financial millstone around their neck.


It would probably also pay to remember that for every low income family who can't afford an efficient $20k car, there's probably another family who can afford it, but actively chooses not to waste their income financing a depreciating asset - even if it seems like a good deal.


 



Can they afford to repair the $140,000 European executive sedan they hit? Never mind whether they bother insuring their own car, what about the risk to other peoples cars? Or, indeed, other people.





tdgeek
29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2915898 19-May-2022 10:32
Send private message

Geektastic:

Can they afford to repair the $140,000 European executive sedan they hit? Never mind whether they bother insuring their own car, what about the risk to other peoples cars? Or, indeed, other people.

 

Not really relevant as that applies right now with the ol' dunger. In fact the ol' dunger is more likely to be involved in an accident. So actually 140k cars would be better off




Batman
Mad Scientist
29765 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2915900 19-May-2022 10:35
Send private message

cheaper to get them fresh import but used prius hybrids


tdgeek
29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2915902 19-May-2022 10:43
Send private message

Batman:

 

cheaper to get them fresh import but used prius hybrids

 

 

That makes sense. No one wants a Leaf with 80km range but I'm sure you can get many hybrids in the current 15k to 20k range, that becomes 5k to 10k, a no brainer. And more or less cars for the family, size wise and range wise


Obraik
2123 posts

Uber Geek


  #2915909 19-May-2022 11:08
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

 

 

That makes sense. No one wants a Leaf with 80km range but I'm sure you can get many hybrids in the current 15k to 20k range, that becomes 5k to 10k, a no brainer. And more or less cars for the family, size wise and range wise

 

 

Based on the amount of Leaf I see in Christchurch (there seems to be one driving around me where ever I am), I'd have to say that's not true. With most people driving far less than that everyday, a Leaf with 80-100km range is more than enough for daily activities.





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits


sen8or
1789 posts

Uber Geek


  #2915911 19-May-2022 11:12
Send private message

So if the Government is getting into the leasing game, do they have to abide by their own rules for establishing affordability (CCCFA?) or will the entity that ends up funding it all have to abide by the rules. Given there are high default rates to lower socio economic houses on loans (as food/rent payments are prioritised), whats the escape route for the finance company? 

 

I suspect this will become an expensive lesson as to why idealistic ambitions need to be tempered against commercial reality, but time will tell.


 
 
 

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).
tdgeek
29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2915913 19-May-2022 11:20
Send private message

Obraik:

 

Based on the amount of Leaf I see in Christchurch (there seems to be one driving around me where ever I am), I'd have to say that's not true. With most people driving far less than that everyday, a Leaf with 80-100km range is more than enough for daily activities.

 

 

I get that but, it will often be a case of a Leaf and the other car. Anyone who never travels out of town will be fine, but thats quite a restriction. A not overly new used 4 door hybrid will cover that though


GV27
5897 posts

Uber Geek


  #2915930 19-May-2022 12:21
Send private message

A lot of the old Priussi are four seaters, I think? A five seat Prius is a relatively new development at least for the current model. 


gzt

gzt
17134 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2915932 19-May-2022 12:31
Send private message

GV27: A lot of the old Priussi are four seaters, I think? A five seat Prius is a relatively new development at least for the current model.

As far as I'm aware all Prius models from 2004 are five seats total. NZ market Prius Alpha Wagon variation was an exception with 7 seats.

There's also a Toyota hybrid passenger van built on the same tech similar in size to Estima. Alphard. Between 7 and 9 total seats depending on model if I recall correctly.

gzt

gzt
17134 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2915933 19-May-2022 12:33
Send private message

Batman: cheaper to get them fresh import but used prius hybrids

Based on the two articles I posted earlier the lease pilots will provide hybrid vehicles.

MikeAqua
7785 posts

Uber Geek


  #2915935 19-May-2022 12:46
Send private message

Robertson was on RNZ jut before 6am this morning and he clarified that the grant is for: -

 

  • New cars
  • That cost under $35k
  • That are less than 8 years old

Yeah/nah, you what now ...?

 

 





Mike


Obraik
2123 posts

Uber Geek


  #2915949 19-May-2022 13:19
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

I get that but, it will often be a case of a Leaf and the other car. Anyone who never travels out of town will be fine, but thats quite a restriction. A not overly new used 4 door hybrid will cover that though

 

 

Depends how often you travel out of the city I guess. If you only travel out of the city once or twice a year then going the cheap Leaf option is still the better way to do it and just get a cheap ICE rental for the trip away - you'll still be saving money. If you buy from EVCity in Christchurch I believe they even have an option where they have a "communal Prius" that you can book in ahead of time and use if you're going on a trip that is beyond the practical range of the EV you purchased from them.

 

But yes, if that isn't practical then a PHEV or Hybrid is the next best option.





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits


tdgeek
29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2915954 19-May-2022 13:23
Send private message

Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

I get that but, it will often be a case of a Leaf and the other car. Anyone who never travels out of town will be fine, but thats quite a restriction. A not overly new used 4 door hybrid will cover that though

 

 

Depends how often you travel out of the city I guess. If you only travel out of the city once or twice a year then going the cheap Leaf option is still the better way to do it and just get a cheap ICE rental for the trip away - you'll still be saving money. If you buy from EVCity in Christchurch I believe they even have an option where they have a "communal Prius" that you can book in ahead of time and use if you're going on a trip that is beyond the practical range of the EV you purchased from them.

 

But yes, if that isn't practical then a PHEV or Hybrid is the next best option.

 

 

That is in excellent idea


tdgeek
29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2915956 19-May-2022 13:27
Send private message

MikeAqua:

 

Robertson was on RNZ jut before 6am this morning and he clarified that the grant is for: -

 

  • New cars
  • That cost under $35k
  • That are less than 8 years old

Yeah/nah, you what now ...?

 

 

 

 

Surely not. The opening post in this thread had a link that states "A similar scheme in California has seen more than 10,000 Californians scrap their old, dirty cars and replace them with cleaner alternatives such as new and used zero-emission, plug-in hybrid, or hybrid cars."

 

Similar scheme, but if its only new that's pretty stupid. A 15k used EV/Hybrid even with a 10k subsidy is a stretch for many lower income families. If its new only then its just a nice option for those that can already afford a modern car. But oh, you have to be lower income too, so you cant afford a new car anyway!

 

Surely was a slip of the tongue


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.