ACT bans "petrol and diesel" new car sales from 2035

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › ACT bans "petrol and diesel" new car sales from 2035

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#2945534 23-Jul-2022 08:41

Journeyman:

Well... they're still mining crap out of the ground for lithium and cobalt. Doing that isn't green. Then there's the human rights abuse of the people in the Congo who are mining that stuff.

heh i like the smell of petrol

but i have 3 petrol cars - all 300-400hp

guess which is my favourite car - nissan leaf, all 100hp of it and even with 40% of its battery dead

i am not going to drive EV to save the planet, but once i drove one i got addicted and i think ICE is terrible the way it all works (unless you have access to a race track then it all works)

and once petrol price shot up i thought this is the end of petrol. unless it suddenly gets crazy cheap then who knows, my cars will be happy :)

also, even if driving an EV isn't going to save the planet, i prefer cleaner air to breathe

please ask govt to ban fireplaces the whole country smells like shet in winter

and shame on EV drivers who have fireplaces. don't get me started on rural people who burn ALL their rubbish.

Journeyman

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#2945657 23-Jul-2022 17:16

If you choose to have an EV that's fine with me. But govts banning ICE vehicles thinking that it'll make any useful difference is really just eco-piety imo.

Obraik

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#2945871 24-Jul-2022 12:56

Journeyman:

Well... they're still mining crap out of the ground for lithium and cobalt. Doing that isn't green. Then there's the human rights abuse of the people in the Congo who are mining that stuff.

That old chestnut lol.

Mining doesn't have to be horrendous for the environment. With proper procedures, mining can be done responsibly. So far, there has not been any environmental disasters related to lithium mining, just lot of speculation on what could happen. Over half the worlds lithium comes from mines in the outback of Australia.

Cobalt is also being used less and less in EV batteries now that many are shifting towards LFP packs which contain 0 cobalt. The two most popular new EVs in NZ, the Model 3 RWD and the MG ZS EV both use LFP packs. More new EVs on the way are starting to use these chemistries too. Let's also not forget that cobalt is used for ICE vehicles too - it's used during the refining process and many catalytic converters have cobalt in them too.

But the big difference here is that those minerals mined to make an EV battery are fully recyclable in the decades down the road when the pack is finally no longer usable. Over 92% of the materials in an EV pack can be recycled out and used to make a new battery. Tesla has already started recycling the small number of packs it has had returned.

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elpenguino

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#2946241 25-Jul-2022 15:43

Journeyman:

If you choose to have an EV that's fine with me. But govts banning ICE vehicles thinking that it'll make any useful difference is really just eco-piety imo.

This is climate change denial stage two. "I grudgingly accept climate change is real (because I dont want to sound like an anti-vaxxer) but I will undermine the required changes we all need to make, every step of the way".

IMO.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

mkissin

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#2946254 25-Jul-2022 15:59

Journeyman:

If you choose to have an EV that's fine with me. But govts banning ICE vehicles thinking that it'll make any useful difference is really just eco-piety imo.

What we really need to do is make the price of petrol account for all of the externalities. Cut all the subsidies, and make it pay its own way. Let the market decide.

You can totally still drive your ICE, of course once petrol is like $8 a liter (*) you'd have to really want it.

(* the cost here will vary radically, depending on a lot of variables. Point is, it would/should be high)

sidefx

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#2946255 25-Jul-2022 16:06

mkissin:

What we really need to do is make the price of petrol account for all of the externalities. Cut all the subsidies, and make it pay its own way. Let the market decide.

strawmanning much?

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mkissin

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#2946259 25-Jul-2022 16:10

sidefx:

mkissin:

What we really need to do is make the price of petrol account for all of the externalities. Cut all the subsidies, and make it pay its own way. Let the market decide.

strawmanning much?

I don't think so. I think banning ICE cars is probably unnecessary if they simply become uneconomic to drive. If we stop subsidising the fact that they're destroying the planet and creating various other health problems then it'll largely take care of itself over time.

Of course, we do need to provide alternatives. Public transport, EVs, and other personal transport will fill that role.

I feel the same way about the torrent of plastic garbage.

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sidefx

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#2946264 25-Jul-2022 16:15

mkissin:

I don't think so. I think banning ICE cars is probably unnecessary if they simply become uneconomic to drive. If we stop subsidising the fact that they're destroying the planet and creating various other health problems then it'll largely take care of itself over time.

Of course, we do need to provide alternatives. Public transport, EVs, and other personal transport will fill that role.

I feel the same way about the torrent of plastic garbage.

How are "we" subsidising them?

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mkissin

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#2946265 25-Jul-2022 16:19

sidefx:

How are "we" subsidising them?

I'm referring to "we" as in humans. Since our oil/petrol comes from overseas, NZers benefit from the subsidies paid by Americans, etc.

There's all sorts of crazy tax breaks given to oil companies. It's not dissimilar to how Rio Tinto squeezes the government every few years. That isn't news.

Also, allowing them to reap huge profits, while not having them pay anything for the healthcare/environmental costs their product imposes on us as a society is effectively a subsidy. Like we did for smoking, etc.

elpenguino

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#2946277 25-Jul-2022 16:37

mkissin:

sidefx:

How are "we" subsidising them?

I'm referring to "we" as in humans. Since our oil/petrol comes from overseas, NZers benefit from the subsidies paid by Americans, etc.

There's all sorts of crazy tax breaks given to oil companies. It's not dissimilar to how Rio Tinto squeezes the government every few years. That isn't news.

Also, allowing them to reap huge profits, while not having them pay anything for the healthcare/environmental costs their product imposes on us as a society is effectively a subsidy. Like we did for smoking, etc.

Alas, the NZ taxpayer also pays.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/10-12-2020/oil-companies-keep-leaving-their-shit-in-new-zealand-waters

Long story short, OMV sold a Taranaki well to a shell company (little s), who then went bust before the well was sealed and cleaned up.

Hundreds of millions of dollars paid to clean up this mess by the NZ taxpayer.

What OMV has done would be criminal if it wasn't so legal.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2946345 25-Jul-2022 22:34

This is one of the least on-topic threads I’ve read. We already have a lot of threads for discussions about EVs, hydro power, etc.

ACT energy use is a the size of a pimple on NSW’s posterior which is why it is hard to find stats for the ACT alone.

If they were really serious about greening ACT then they’d work on the much bigger problem of relying upon 90% of their energy coming from coal, oil and gas. See the energy mix graph on https://www.energy.gov.au/data/states-and-territories

And I am waiting for John Cadogan’s video on this PR stunt.

elpenguino

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#2946353 25-Jul-2022 23:18

Hammerer:

If they were really serious about greening ACT then they’d work on the much bigger problem of relying upon 90% of their energy coming from coal, oil and gas. See the energy mix graph on https://www.energy.gov.au/data/states-and-territories

It doesn't have to be either / or. Both these actions can be taken.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2946460 26-Jul-2022 11:30

elpenguino:

Hammerer:

If they were really serious about greening ACT then they’d work on the much bigger problem of relying upon 90% of their energy coming from coal, oil and gas. See the energy mix graph on https://www.energy.gov.au/data/states-and-territories

It doesn't have to be either / or. Both these actions can be taken.

I didn’t say that they could only choose one and I’m not sure why you would mischaracterise my comments that way.

I am saying that they will make little progress until they deal with the bigger issues. A 10% reduction in non-renewable electricity production will give a bigger and more immediate climate benefit than converting vehicles from ICE to EV.

Also, if you think that the ACT statement is really action then where is the real benefit. Their “action” is largely self-righteous puffery which commends them while they, quite literally, do nothing to bring any measurable improvement.

ACT grandstanding about getting rid of ICE vehicles is far easier to do than to make changes where it really make a substantial difference. Australia had a government report a decade ago, about the time that Germany removed its solar subsidies in 2012, which warned about these issues. They’ve largely done nothing since to improve the situation and this latest statement is just more of the same.

mkissin

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#2946461 26-Jul-2022 11:34

I think we can all agree that, broadly speaking, Australia is total garbage when it comes to climate issues. So, something is better than nothing?

New Zealand isn't exactly in a place to get on its high horse though either, since we're bending over backwards to carve out exceptions in any climate policy for primary industries.

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#2946465 26-Jul-2022 11:54

Journeyman:

If you choose to have an EV that's fine with me. But govts banning ICE vehicles thinking that it'll make any useful difference is really just eco-piety imo.

don't worry Ford NZ has just released the next Ranger - no less than 14 different models to choose from under 4 levels of trims

my mate says the dealer was so confident they they will sell themselves and as revenge he went and bought a ute from the competition next door

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