RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

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#3187736 28-Jan-2024 16:16

Dingbatt:

Technofreak: Stop talking rubbish. The government isn't double taxing PHEV's. In fact a smart PHEV owner using a PHEV as intended will pay the least of any vehicle owner.

It’s not rubbish. In my use case (I did say it was anecdotal) my round trip to work is 100km. There is no ability to charge at work and the BMW has an all-electric range of 25km (at most). So 75% of the journey is on petrol at 10.9c/km for road tax (5.6c FET + 5.3c RUC). Note I’m only talking road tax here, not total running costs. So I refute your argument that a PHEV in electric mode will “pay the least of any vehicle owner” if you are just looking at the taxes. Any petrol car that uses less than 6.5l/100km will pay less road tax than a PHEV in battery mode.

So once the battery is depleted the PHEV will pay;

FET
RUC

Two taxes. Double taxing. Triple taxing if you include the added GST.

Your use case isn't what a PHEV is aimed at. In your situation I agree.

This is why in my opinion precisely why the RUC have set they way they have to discourage this type of use.

Note, I said a Smart PHEV owner. No doubt there are a lot of not so smart PHEV owners out there. The RUC regime may smarten up their thinking.

I quote what I posted in post # 3183196

You're getting a discount, paying $0.53 instead of $0.76. You pay a top up if you do any ICE driving.

If you do anything more than around 70% of pure EV driving you're ahead of both a BEV and an ICE.

A smart PHEV owner will be aiming for better than 70% EV driving, which for many use cases is easily achievable.

My comment was correct when taken in context with the PHEV use case.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#3187741 28-Jan-2024 16:37

Interesting comment from Richard Edwards from EVs and Beyond in this podcast today that claims that Simeon Brown has stated that 'emissions charges' will increase on fossil fuels as part of the RUC rollout for all vehicles. I can't find any mention of it on the AutoTalk channel he mentions so I'm guessing it was heard but not reported as part of the content there. (from the 28:20 mark but I can't figure out how to put this time start in the embedded Youtube link)

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BlakJak

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#3187751 28-Jan-2024 17:22

eracode:

HarmLessSolutions:

eracode:

I’m keen to know which, if any, iPhone GPS apps show speed in NZ. Google Maps doesn’t.

If you're trying to check speedo accuracy in a vehicle there are other methods. We checked our Leaf by using our Garmin GPS to display speed (Leaf reads ~8% high). For the Polestar2 this isn't possible as the 12V 'cigarette lighter' socket is located in the rear of the cargo area and the Garmin's power lead won't reach that far (while still maintaining satellite visability) so we used the dashcam while driving at a set speed using CC (100kmh) and then reviewing the video (Polestar reads high by ~5%).

Thanks but I know there are ‘other methods’. I have access only to an iPhone - don’t want to buy something else. That’s why I specified iPhone apps in my query.

Android version of Google Maps has the speed as a variable to turn on or off.
Interestingly (annoyingly) it won't render it on Android Auto. But when using the phone alone, it does.

Not Apple, interestingly. Reddit Thread discussing similar from two years ago.

If you look for actual GPS apps, as opposed to mapping apps, you may have some luck. Google gave me an example.

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SaltyNZ

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#3187777 28-Jan-2024 18:05

HarmLessSolutions:

Simeon Brown has stated that 'emissions charges' will increase on fossil fuels as part of the RUC rollout for all vehicles.

I'll believe it when I see it.

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rugrat

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#3187789 28-Jan-2024 19:18

BlakJak:

Not Apple, interestingly. Reddit Thread discussing similar from two years ago.

If you look for actual GPS apps, as opposed to mapping apps, you may have some luck. Google gave me an example.

On previous page I mentioned Here Wego and Jarledb mentioned Waze.

Both driving applics available for iPhone that display speed traveling at.

SaltyNZ

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#3189132 1-Feb-2024 10:39

paulchinnz:

That's a strong assertion. What's the definition of 'it worked'?

Well, here you go. BEV sales dropped from 39% to 3% after the scheme was scrapped. If you want to be picky and say it was only 39% because were rushing in to buy after the announcement, then it still dropped from ~20% to 3%. That's the overall registration figure.

If you look at new cars only, it's more like 50% to 5%.

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cshwone

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#3189200 1-Feb-2024 11:24

SaltyNZ:

paulchinnz:

That's a strong assertion. What's the definition of 'it worked'?

Well, here you go. BEV sales dropped from 39% to 3% after the scheme was scrapped. If you want to be picky and say it was only 39% because were rushing in to buy after the announcement, then it still dropped from ~20% to 3%. That's the overall registration figure.

If you look at new cars only, it's more like 50% to 5%.

All that is based on a single month following the abolition of the discount. Based on that graph you could argue that in the two months of Dec 23 and Jan 24 21.1% of new registrations were EVs. ie those who were going to buy bought early. And overall sales for that two month period were consistent with the trend. It will only become apparent what the impact was with extended monthly data rather than a single point.

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SaltyNZ

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#3189202 1-Feb-2024 11:36

cshwone:

All that is based on a single month following the abolition of the discount. Based on that graph you could argue that in the two months of Dec 23 and Jan 24 21.1% of new registrations were EVs. ie those who were going to buy bought early. And overall sales for that two month period were consistent with the trend. It will only become apparent what the impact was with extended monthly data rather than a single point.

Neither of the previous December to January periods exhibited a drop of that magnitude. They were 10% and 13%, respectively. Note also that if you intend to argue that "those who were going to buy bought early" you implicitly already accept that the end of the scheme has a major influence on purchasing.

Otherwise if it didn't matter, why would they buy early when December generally already has big costs for people because of Christmas?

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sen8or

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#3189203 1-Feb-2024 11:37

All vehicle sales are flat in January, this is not a new thing as the period can be hot or cold in any given year. There is certainly an element of kick back by consumers , but its not necessarily a primary driver of low sales. Also, the Dec registrations is likely to include a large number of "demos and workshop loan cars" for dealers to get at the rebate before its gone, so I'd take the December numbers with a grain of salt.

Technofreak

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#3189213 1-Feb-2024 11:51

Looking at overseas trends EV sales have slowed significantly in the last part of 2023 even with large price reductions. The early adopter bucket is full and the rest of the market is not ready or not able to to jump into the EV pool.

The price reductions being a two edged sword, why would I buy something today which I can get for less tomorrow.

It's impossible to attribute the reduction in sales numbers to any one parameter.

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Firesphere

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#3189218 1-Feb-2024 12:01

sen8or:

All vehicle sales are flat in January, this is not a new thing as the period can be hot or cold in any given year. There is certainly an element of kick back by consumers , but its not necessarily a primary driver of low sales. Also, the Dec registrations is likely to include a large number of "demos and workshop loan cars" for dealers to get at the rebate before its gone, so I'd take the December numbers with a grain of salt.

You can not, with dry eyes, say that a drop to (pre-)2021 levels of EV registrations, is "because January", most importantly, because the numbers are percentages (Unless you close your eyes to that and only look at the absolute numbers).

That is a relative number, out of all car sales. So no matter what the previous sales were, if the introduction of RUC to EVs was lower, or more gradually, you might expect a drop, but not a relative drop this big.

Further, there is a clear upward trend, that suddenly crashes. Looking at relative dips, even in worst scenarios, the January dip of 2023 and 2022 is comparable to some other dips, such as a winter dip, clearly not a crash as is visible for January 2024.

exador

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#3189270 1-Feb-2024 14:38

SaltyNZ

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#3189272 1-Feb-2024 14:44

Technofreak:
Looking at overseas trends EV sales have slowed significantly in the last part of 2023 even with large price reductions. The early adopter bucket is full and the rest of the market is not ready or not able to to jump into the EV pool.

The price reductions being a two edged sword, why would I buy something today which I can get for less tomorrow.

It's impossible to attribute the reduction in sales numbers to any one parameter.

Looking at New Zealand trends EV sales have not slowed significantly in the last part of 2023. They cratered in January, after the Clean Car Scheme ended.

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