EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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6756 posts

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#2896211 3-Apr-2022 14:28

HarmLessSolutions:

We're in the market for a Polestar2 and are potentially facing a 2 month wait for a test drive as the NZ agents are trying to place around 2,000 other prospective buyers in the driver's seat for a try. The unprecedented demand has caught them flat footed, due I suspect to the 'perfect storm' of current fuel prices and the Polestar2 receiving glowing reviews often along the lines of being a 'Tesla beater', which for us it is (towing ability, comfort level, exclusivity, confidence in service network.)

The pricing of the both of the single motor variants are under the $80K rebate threshold and as we will be purchasing one in a business capacity we can also lighten the price further regarding GST clawback. A long way short of the $200K you've stated and for us a large proportion of the charging will be by way of our PV generation so 'fuel' savings will be substantial and of course will reinforce the economic viability of our PV investment.

We are considering the purchase to be a long term investment so don't hold your breath waiting for ours to appear on the second hand market. The geriatric Commodore we'll be retiring has spent close to 20 years being our long trip and towing vehicle as we tend to service our vehicles well and stick with them as long as they are reliable.

I must admit it was a close run thing between the Model 3 RWD I eventually got and the LR Polestar 2 (without plus pack). You could tell in the EV test drive thread I started that there wasn’t much separating them. I may do a follow up in that thread if it assists people who haven’t been able to snag a test drive.
There is certainly the ‘exclusivity’ aspect for the P2 because I have seen a lot of M3s in the past few weeks after the two shipments arriving in early March, and probably half a dozen P2s. Not sure about the service network aspect either. As far as I can tell Polestar is a Giltrap run thing and as such is separate from Volvo NZ.

Not so much a “Tesla Beater” as a good alternative if you want a EV sedan. Particularly one that is a little more conventional in its interior (transmission tunnel and all). Not as efficient, but probably slightly better built.

In the end I don’t think I would have regretted whichever I had gone for. But the $8000 difference* will go some way to provisioning some PV panels to help charge it.

* Recent Tesla price increases have pretty much wiped this difference out.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

antonknee

1133 posts

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#2896236 3-Apr-2022 15:23

Dingbatt:

As far as I can tell Polestar is a Giltrap run thing and as such is separate from Volvo NZ.

Polestar and Volvo NZ are both under the Giltrap umbrella along with Audi, Volkswagen and many others (technically Volvo is a joint venture between Giltrap and someone else).

kingdragonfly

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#2896247 3-Apr-2022 15:48

This guy lives in Utah, which is known as a "libertarian" / right-wing / "we don't like the guberment" state.

in the USA, regarding everything from highway safety to what is legal to drive, the federal government give a lot of leeway of the states. Here's the example of Montana:

prior to 1974 no daytime speed limit

1974: Congress, at President Richard Nixon’s urging, passed a 55 mph daytime highway speed limit

After the federal government threatened to withhold highway funding for states that refused to comply, Montana enacted a $5 fine for exceeding the 55 mph speed limit. Even then these violations weren't recorded. Just hand the officer $5, and no one's the wiser.

1987: Congress permitted states to raise their speed limits to 65 mph

1995: Congress repeals the federal 55 mph speed limit. Montana operated with only its basic rule, which required motorists to drive in a “reasonable and prudent manner”

1998: The Montana state supreme court struck down Montana’s unique “reasonable and prudent,” calling it unconstitutionally vague.

1999: Montana set a 75 mph speed, state’s first posted daytime speed limit since December 1995.

Dingbatt

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#2896251 3-Apr-2022 15:53

And your point is what?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

wellygary

8324 posts

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#2896275 3-Apr-2022 17:12

Houston... we may have problem....

If car shippers start to lock out the second hand EV market from Japan this would put a huge dent in the uptake here....

I’m guessing the manufacturers of new vehicles will probably be asked for higher rates or much more liability guarantee.. but for a market like NZ with small orders, they might simply suspend sales for a bit.....???

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128252814/importing-evs-into-nz-may-become-harder-and-more-costly-after-us500m-ship-fire

kingdragonfly

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#2896279 3-Apr-2022 17:23

Dingbatt:
And your point is what?

Having a legal car in Utah is the equivalent of getting a legal dog license. If it was New York or California that would be entirely different.

Dingbatt

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#2896348 3-Apr-2022 18:35

kingdragonfly:
Dingbatt:

And your point is what?

Having a legal car in Utah is the equivalent of getting a legal dog license. If it was New York or California that would be entirely different.

Thanks.

I was struggling to see what relevance your fact salad had to general EV News (the topic of this thread).

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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gzt

17127 posts

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#2896364 3-Apr-2022 19:27

wellygary:
Houston... we may have problem....
If car shippers start to lock out the second hand EV market from Japan this would put a huge dent in the uptake here....
I’m guessing the manufacturers of new vehicles will probably be asked for higher rates or much more liability guarantee.. but for a market like NZ with small orders, they might simply suspend sales for a bit.....???

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128252814/importing-evs-into-nz-may-become-harder-and-more-costly-after-us500m-ship-fire

Imo it won't be too drastic. The industry will will figure out what the risk factors are and eliminate those. Fast charging a 110% flat hv battery for example might be a silly thing to do just before roll on.

SaltyNZ

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#2896480 4-Apr-2022 06:29

HarmLessSolutions:

A long way short of the $200K you've stated and for us a large proportion of the charging will be by way of our PV generation so 'fuel' savings will be substantial and of course will reinforce the economic viability of our PV investment.

We are considering the purchase to be a long term investment so don't hold your breath waiting for ours to appear on the second hand market. The geriatric Commodore we'll be retiring has spent close to 20 years being our long trip and towing vehicle as we tend to service our vehicles well and stick with them as long as they are reliable.

Likewise for us. We just had PV installed last week and it has already generated ~10% of our monthly power so on track for the roughly 33% average estimated. The Tesla is the most expensive car I've ever owned, but having had a Leaf for 4 years the contrast is stark: we'd be screwed if we hadn't been driving an EV already. If it turns out to be too expensive to fix this time round then, most likely, between the residual value in it for the battery, an old Odyssey, and the rebate on a second-hand import, there's probably another Leaf in our near future for the second car.

At some point there will be roof racks and/or a steal hitch for the Tesla, too.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

SaltyNZ

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#2897225 5-Apr-2022 15:30

Dingbatt:

And your point is what?

Americans fetishise rebellion whilst simultaneously demanding everyone else be unquestioningly subservient to authority both real and imagined?

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

MikeAqua

7782 posts

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#2897248 5-Apr-2022 16:21

wellygary:

Houston... we may have problem....

If car shippers start to lock out the second hand EV market from Japan this would put a huge dent in the uptake here....

I’m guessing the manufacturers of new vehicles will probably be asked for higher rates or much more liability guarantee.. but for a market like NZ with small orders, they might simply suspend sales for a bit.....???

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128252814/importing-evs-into-nz-may-become-harder-and-more-costly-after-us500m-ship-fire

"MOL has not confirmed that the fire was caused by an EV, but the lithium batteries in the EVs on board helped fuel the fire which the crew were unable to bring under control."

So if it isn't clear that an EV started he fire, there seem no difference between a new and used EV. New or used would each burn just as well.

The main firefighting method on most ships (outside of engine and fuel compartments) is water. If you can't put the fire out you use water to stop spread. Typically you would shut off the compartment where the fire is (to smother the fire) and apply water to the peripheral walls/decks, to control heat spread. With a lithium battery fire underway, external oxygen isn't needed, and the heat is so fierce it would be difficult to stop adjacent cars igniting.

Once a few cars are going, the heat would be horrendous. I would not be surprised at all if bulkhead plates started failing, allowing spread of fire to other compartments. I'd be heading for the lifeboat pronto.

Mike

Scott3

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#2897252 5-Apr-2022 16:55

MikeAqua:

wellygary:

Houston... we may have problem....

If car shippers start to lock out the second hand EV market from Japan this would put a huge dent in the uptake here....

I’m guessing the manufacturers of new vehicles will probably be asked for higher rates or much more liability guarantee.. but for a market like NZ with small orders, they might simply suspend sales for a bit.....???

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128252814/importing-evs-into-nz-may-become-harder-and-more-costly-after-us500m-ship-fire

"MOL has not confirmed that the fire was caused by an EV, but the lithium batteries in the EVs on board helped fuel the fire which the crew were unable to bring under control."

So if it isn't clear that an EV started he fire, there seem no difference between a new and used EV. New or used would each burn just as well.

The main firefighting method on most ships (outside of engine and fuel compartments) is water. If you can't put the fire out you use water to stop spread. Typically you would shut off the compartment where the fire is (to smother the fire) and apply water to the peripheral walls/decks, to control heat spread. With a lithium battery fire underway, external oxygen isn't needed, and the heat is so fierce it would be difficult to stop adjacent cars igniting.

Once a few cars are going, the heat would be horrendous. I would not be surprised at all if bulkhead plates started failing, allowing spread of fire to other compartments. I'd be heading for the lifeboat pronto.

Another article (or headline) on this.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128270062/shipping-giant-mol-confirms-it-has-stopped-carrying-used-evs-over-safety-concern

Decision seems strange. I can see the concern about the risk of a fire on board that can't be fought with with water, but:

As said above, a used and new EV will fuel the fire the same.

And to exclude hybrids, some of which these days are plug in have 10kWh + batteries.

With the move towards more battery car's, the company could find it with a lot smaller market segment if can't find a way to accept or manage the risk of carrying used EV's.

gzt

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#2897293 5-Apr-2022 19:39

Article: Atsushi Hara, a Japanese-based spokesman for MOl, confirmed its new policy only applied to used fully-electric vehicles and not to hybrid vehicles, and clarified it had “nothing to do with the incident on Felicity Ace”.

The article goes on to quote a local dealer saying MOI transports very few used vehicles to NZ so it won't make much difference.

SaltyNZ

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#2897409 6-Apr-2022 08:27

I read an article yesterday that said last year globally over 53GWh of power batteries were manufactured, and those numbers are ramping up fast. Shipping companies are just going to have to find ways to deal with the issue because it isn't going away. At least not until solid state batteries hit the market in any meaningful way.

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antonknee

1133 posts

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#2897458 6-Apr-2022 09:22

Saw some Polestar 2 on a truck this morning during my drive to the office. It's a very striking car which is quite nice IMO - I like it - but it does seem a little bit maybe "staid" (old-mannish is what I was originally thinking), very Volvo in a way - which does make sense.

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