EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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3963 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2897931 7-Apr-2022 09:31

frankv:

Scott3:

As said above, a used and new EV will fuel the fire the same.

I guess the assumption is that a used EV could be damaged/worn, which would make it more susceptible to fire.

I think all EV's are susceptible to fire from an external source.

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2897933 7-Apr-2022 09:33

New cars are a lot less likely to catch fire, I guess if you are shipping new cars is likely to be an entire ship full of new cars.

Scott3

3963 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2897983 7-Apr-2022 11:00

Dingbatt:

I am putting this here rather than the Model 3 thread (maybe that needs to be changed to a ‘Tesla’ thread instead?).

Australian pricing announced* (according to Chasing Cars, at least) for the Model Y.

The standard range 2wd and performance models $AUD$68K and $AUD98K respectively (+ORCs).

https://www.chasingcars.com.au/news/new-car-prices/tesla-model-y-australian-pricing-revealed-for-electric-suv-exclusive/

So there is a chance the 2wd will sneak in below the magic number.

* Edit: Note this is a leak (now that I have read into it further) but it does provide hope for those holding out for a sub $80K MY.

Leaked base price for base model Y is AU$67,990. For comparison the base model 3 is $63,900. (assume these are headline prices rather than drive away prices) So a 6.4% increase in price.

Model 3 in NZ is $74,443 Drive Away. Plus 6.4% = $79,207...

So looking good for rebate Eligibility. (and if it is marginal I imaging Tesla will adjust pricing to make it eligible, for more sales volume).

Going to make for a funny looking fleet though. Suspect 75% + Model Y's will be White, with black interior and base wheels.

For the model 3, any color other than white is +$1700 (except red with is $3300), different wheels are $2500, and alternate interior is +1,700. If the same applies for the model Y, and the price is per my estimate, any of those options would cause the car to cross the $80k price threshold, meaning the cost of ticking the option box for say blue exterior, is going to be over $10,000... Hard to see value in other colors at that price.

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2897984 7-Apr-2022 11:04

Like the LR Polestar 2 or the ioniq 5 etc, thats ok you can always wrap it or buy wheels later.

jonathan18

7413 posts

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#2897987 7-Apr-2022 11:08

Scott3:

Going to make for a funny looking fleet though. Suspect 75% + Model Y's will be White, with black interior and base wheels.

For the model 3, any color other than white is +$1700 (except red with is $3300), different wheels are $2500, and alternate interior is +1,700. If the same applies for the model Y, and the price is per my estimate, any of those options would cause the car to cross the $80k price threshold, meaning the cost of ticking the option box for say blue exterior, is going to be over $10,000... Hard to see value in other colors at that price.

I was running this exact scenario past my wife at breakfast today. We had decided on getting a blue MY, as neither of us is keen on white cars. But presented with paying a $1700 paint premium and losing the rebate makes simply changing the colour from default a costly exercise ($9200 just to change the car's colour!), and one we'd not be willing to do. (As for the others, would never choose a white interior, and not too fussed about the wheels. I'm already a bit worried about the ride on the standards, going by what I've read/seen on the Y's suspension/ride.)

That said, I guess there's still the possibility they'll change the default from white. In the US, for example, both white and silver are available at the base price; blue an additional $1k; black $1500; red $2k. I'd be totally happy with silver, so here's hoping...

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#2897989 7-Apr-2022 11:14

In North America, Midnight Silver is also a free colour in addition to White. Hopefully they'll bring that change to NZ as well.

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RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2897991 7-Apr-2022 11:17

The multi coat white used to be quite a spendy option.

Black was 'free' because it was the cheapest paint, flat black etc.

IDK why they just dont make them all free apart from perhaps the red.

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HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2898192 7-Apr-2022 17:14

This is the recording of last night's webinar hosted by ChargeNet which contains a wealth of information on EVs particularly in respect to intending or inexperienced EV ownership. I found the information provided by Richard Briggs of EECA to be especially interesting and have pegged the video to start where he explains where the legislation regarding RUCs for EVs is heading (i.e. towards a distance based charge for all road vehicles). The entire webinar is worth a watch even for long time EV owners.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

frankv

5680 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2898194 7-Apr-2022 17:16

Scott3:

I think all EV's are susceptible to fire from an external source.

Almost totally, but not completely, the same as petrol-powered cars then. Or diesel-powered. Or coal-powered locomotives. Or a forest.

MarkH67

517 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2898219 7-Apr-2022 18:16

HarmLessSolutions:

where the legislation regarding RUCs for EVs is heading (i.e. towards a distance based charge for all road vehicles).

TBH I can't see how else it could be done without huge anomalies due to ICE cars, Hybrids, Plug-In Hybrids & BEVs. Currently the very efficient hybrids are likely paying too little of the roading costs and plug-in hybrids are going to be a complete pain to deal with unless they are charged per km. Whatever amount is charged on petrol to pay for road costs will obviously be removed and then every vehicle on the road will end up paying a RUC based on kms driven and I'm sure there will be different weight groups affecting the rate charged.

I think that it will take a bit of work to get the new system in - that's why the government has pushed off the job to 2024, a problem delayed is a problem avoided (for now at least).

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2898278 7-Apr-2022 18:35

Richard makes no mention of how the distance travelled will be monitored, an odometer based system (open to dishonesty as currently) or a GPS system similar to eRoad. There'd be significant introduction cost for a GPS system and quite a bit of resistance on 'privacy' grounds so potentially unpopular.

A distance based system also removes the taxation inequity involved for non-road use of petrol in power tools, boats and off road vehicles.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

MarkH67

517 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2898287 7-Apr-2022 18:43

HarmLessSolutions:

Richard makes no mention of how the distance travelled will be monitored, an odometer based system (open to dishonesty as currently) or a GPS system similar to eRoad. There'd be significant introduction cost for a GPS system and quite a bit of resistance on 'privacy' grounds so potentially unpopular.

I totally agree with you there, hence the pushing off of the job to 2024. If Labour loses the next election then it will not be their problem to sort it out, they could just criticize instead.

WyleECoyoteNZ

1049 posts

Uber Geek

#2898345 7-Apr-2022 22:01

Story out today of the cars onboard the Felicity Ace that sank last month

By my rough count about just over 70 EV's

https://www.autocar.co.nz/what-cars-were-on-the-felicity-ace/

Likely to be a few hybrids amongst the other's as well

Story copied below as well

The Felicity Ace is so full of wonder for all the wrong reasons.

The massive cargo ship that sunk in the Atlantic Ocean over a month ago brought up plenty of interesting topics. Topics such as carrying electric vehicles on ships, or whether Lamborghini would restart Aventador production for those lost at sea. (Spoiler alert: looks like they have).

But one thing everyone wants to know is what cars were on the ship before it went down.

Well, now we know. And boy-o-boy, some of these might make your heart crack a little knowing they are now just one expensive aquarium.

So, here you go:

• Five Volkswagen ID.4s. These are marked as “test” vehicles.

• One Volkswagen Taigo (an SUV-coupe alternative).

• 83 Volkswagen Golfs.

• 50 Audi Q3s.

• Three Audi A4 Cabrios.

• 44 Audi A5 Sportbacks.

• 10 Audi A5 Coupes.

• 34 Audi E-Trons (insert fire emoji here). There were also an additional nine E-Tron Sportbacks.

Porsche don’t list actual car makes. Instead, they are named under what factory they are from.

• 126 Porsche Bratislava’s. Porsche builds its Cayenne here.

• 25 Porsche Zuffenhausens, which are likely Taycans.

• 23 different Porche Zuffenhausens, which are likely 911s.

• 19 Porsche Leipzigs. They build the Macans and Panameras there.

• Three Bentley Continental Flying Spurs.

• Six Bentley Continental GTs.

• 12 Bentley Continental GTCs (the convertible version of the GT).

• 12 Bentley Bentaygas.

• Five Lamborghini Huracans.

• Six Lamborghini Aventadors.

• 10 Lamborghini Urus’.

There were also a handful of one-off vehicles onboard, including:

• One 2015 Ford Mustang.

• One 2014 Kia Soul.

• One 2018 Nissan Versa Note.

• One 2017 Volkswagen Jetta.

• One 2007 BMW 750I.

• One 1996 Honda Prelude, which according to Jalopnik is the 65th Prelude SiR ever built.

Also onboard was industrial equipment, including a mower, two borehole drills and a whole heap of used tractors

Scott3

3963 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2898353 7-Apr-2022 23:47

MarkH67:

HarmLessSolutions:

where the legislation regarding RUCs for EVs is heading (i.e. towards a distance based charge for all road vehicles).

TBH I can't see how else it could be done without huge anomalies due to ICE cars, Hybrids, Plug-In Hybrids & BEVs. Currently the very efficient hybrids are likely paying too little of the roading costs and plug-in hybrids are going to be a complete pain to deal with unless they are charged per km. Whatever amount is charged on petrol to pay for road costs will obviously be removed and then every vehicle on the road will end up paying a RUC based on kms driven and I'm sure there will be different weight groups affecting the rate charged.

I think that it will take a bit of work to get the new system in - that's why the government has pushed off the job to 2024, a problem delayed is a problem avoided (for now at least).

I can see two options:

Per Km RUC on all vehicles (above ebike size).
A combined RUC & congestion charge system, via a GPS or similar tracking system.

Both have issues.

First is that current petrol tax being per liter acts as a strong incentive for efficient vehicles. Not the point of the tax at all (it is to fund the land transport network), but A good thing from a emissions reduction perspective. Hard to unwind in a emissions concerned environment.

RUC's on all vehicles would upset those currently getting a really sweet deal, with current petrol tax's. Notably those with smaller Toyota hybrids, where the tiny fuel consumption currently means tiny road user tax. Taxi industry would be very vocal about doing the right thing to reduce emmision's, then having the rules changed to disadvantage (comparatively to now) them etc... Those with large engines petrol performance car's and SUV would also be big winners.

It would also be a big win for non commercial off road petrol users. (especially recreational boating with petrol engines). This would be a big win for fairness, loosing the tax unfair tax contribution from boaties would mean that the tax burden on road users would increase. Difficult politically.

Going whole hog to a real time congestion charging system would have massive upsides in terms of the productivity of our road's, but would carry all the issues above, along with privacy concern's, and fairness concerns (as it would effectively price the poor off the roads at peak times).

Either way I don't see one of our major political parties being willing to tackle this change in the next decade or so, so I predict that we will keep kicking the can down the road with extensions to the EV RUC exemption of a few years at at time.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2898491 8-Apr-2022 11:04

Scott3:

I can see two options:

Per Km RUC on all vehicles (above ebike size).
A combined RUC & congestion charge system, via a GPS or similar tracking system.
Both have issues.

First is that current petrol tax being per liter acts as a strong incentive for efficient vehicles. Not the point of the tax at all (it is to fund the land transport network), but A good thing from a emissions reduction perspective. Hard to unwind in a emissions concerned environment.

RUC's on all vehicles would upset those currently getting a really sweet deal, with current petrol tax's. Notably those with smaller Toyota hybrids, where the tiny fuel consumption currently means tiny road user tax. Taxi industry would be very vocal about doing the right thing to reduce emmision's, then having the rules changed to disadvantage (comparatively to now) them etc... Those with large engines petrol performance car's and SUV would also be big winners.

It would also be a big win for non commercial off road petrol users. (especially recreational boating with petrol engines). This would be a big win for fairness, loosing the tax unfair tax contribution from boaties would mean that the tax burden on road users would increase. Difficult politically.

Going whole hog to a real time congestion charging system would have massive upsides in terms of the productivity of our road's, but would carry all the issues above, along with privacy concern's, and fairness concerns (as it would effectively price the poor off the roads at peak times).

Either way I don't see one of our major political parties being willing to tackle this change in the next decade or so, so I predict that we will keep kicking the can down the road with extensions to the EV RUC exemption of a few years at at time.

Using RUCs to incentivise emission reduction was mentioned by Richard with his "emission profiling" comment. Setting RUCs according to fuel type and/or fuel economy statistics would be relatively easy within the system he discusses. This is obviously already done for the likes of HVs but could be 'fine tuned' with a more automated RUC system for all vehicles.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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