Last day before 3Apr to oppose 30kmh speed limit

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Last day before 3Apr to oppose 30kmh speed limit

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#2896573 4-Apr-2022 09:06

It would be interesting to know how many pedestrian accidents occur on roads that lack the simple expedient of a parallel footpath.

Coming from the UK where most roads you would expect to find pedestrians on would have footpaths separated by raised curbs etc we were quite surprised when we moved to Martinborough to find pedestrians walking along roads that had no footpaths at all - even with small children and/or dogs etc. Getting pedestrians out of the road seems to me more useful than lowering car speeds so that the pedestrians are less injured when they get hit...! They even walk on roads with 80kmh limits.

Also, I cannot tell you the number of cyclists, joggers and walkers we have had to evade when driving in the dark who insist on being out amongst the cars with no reflective gear, no flashing lights etc and dressed in dark clothes. In the rare instances I am cycling in the dark, I would light up like a Christmas tree with reflective bits, flashing red lights, bright headlights and so on - I do not WANT to get hit so I try to make myself very obvious! Oddly, many people do not seem to take that view.

antonknee

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#2896575 4-Apr-2022 09:07

For those of you gnashing your teeth and asking "why'd they pick my road; there's no framework, my road doesn't make sense, this isn't fairrrrrr; woe is me; me me me" - have you read all of the quite detailed supporting information Auckland Transport have provided? Or have you just assumed they threw darts at a map/have a personal vendetta against you?

Just because you don't like a change doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do - there are more people than just yourself on this planet, and it is the role of governing bodies to govern with everyone, including the more vulnerable, in mind.

Will they have got it 100% right in every instance? No, impossible. Have they probably got it right in most of them? Yes, even if you don't like it.

Handsomedan

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#2896594 4-Apr-2022 10:05

I'm not opposed to the lowering of speed limits where it makes sense, but what I do have an issue with is the constant changes of speed limit -

For example: When I take my son to football training a few suburbs over, I use cruise control most of the time, as my company car is GPS tracked and I get "pinged" for exceeding the speed limit.

Along that drive through the suburbs of Auckland, I'll go from limits of 50 to 60, back to 50, then 30, then back to 50, then 70, then back to 50 and again to 30, before hitting an area where the limit is 10 (my destination).

It's nonsensical. And frustrating. And the way in which many of these roads are designed, it's probably unnecessary.

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insane

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#2896605 4-Apr-2022 10:40

antonknee:

For those of you gnashing your teeth and asking "why'd they pick my road; there's no framework, my road doesn't make sense, this isn't fairrrrrr; woe is me; me me me" - have you read all of the quite detailed supporting information Auckland Transport have provided? Or have you just assumed they threw darts at a map/have a personal vendetta against you?

...

Their intentions are clearly really good, I've got a young child so I wholeheartedly support the aspiration of increased safety - no question there.

They don't make it easy on themselves when they say things like this though:

AT:

Safe speeds around schools

The internationally recognised safe and appropriate speed in areas with people walking and on bikes, like around schools, is 30km/h. In Auckland, there are over 560 schools with current speed limits that do not make walking, cycling, and scooting appealing modes of transport, both for children and their parents.

What we are proposing:

We are helping to meet the target indicated by the Ministry of Transport to have safe speeds near 40% of Auckland’s schools by 30 June 2024.
To do this, we are proposing speed limit changes on roads around 82 schools under Phase Three of the Safe Speeds Programme.
The majority of these 82 schools are located in residential areas where the actual speeds that vehicles travel at (operating speeds) are already low. Therefore, the changes we propose will simply bring the posted speed limit in line with the speed vehicles are already travelling at.

As part of this proposal, we have prioritised the roads which already have road safety engineering measures like speed humps, or they already have low operating speeds and don’t require them.

Seems bizarre they they are actively prioritising school areas where safety measures are already in place or self-policed. Feels like they are going for the low hanging fruit to tick a box and meet their target rather than improving safety where there aren't controls in place or where self-policing is poor.

Jase2985

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#2896680 4-Apr-2022 11:30

its so it looks like they are doing something when really it requires little effort from them

blackjack17

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#2896727 4-Apr-2022 12:36

insane:

Seems bizarre they they are actively prioritising school areas where safety measures are already in place or self-policed. Feels like they are going for the low hanging fruit to tick a box and meet their target rather than improving safety where there aren't controls in place or where self-policing is poor.

As a teacher who has done more than my fair share of crossing duties I can assure you that people don't self police. I have had to jump out of the way of cars on a crossing before.

At the moment there are a number of roads that have a speed limit that is neither safe nor practical.

The argument here seems to be going

You can't lower the speed limit think of the gearboxes/tradies/time wastage/inconvenience/lack of data/money gathering conspiracy.

When it was pointed out that most of the roads being considered aren't safe or practical to go at 50km/hr, now we are getting

What is the point, why aren't the council doing anything meaningful?.

People treat speed limits as goals, reduce the speed limit and rightly or wrongly you reduce the goal. It also gives the police other tool boxes to enforce. You travel 80km/hr in a 50 you get a pathetically small fine of $300. You travel at 80km/hr in a 30 zone you can get done for dangerous driving and lose your licence.

People fear change until it occurs and then forget about it.

Every single roading change that is suggested to make it safer has to be consulted on to death. Fact is we have a disgustingly large road toll, a massive over reliance on personal vehicles and everyone thinks they are an expect driver and they know better.

Changing the speed limit should be an easy, cheap way of making sure that our most vulnerable people are protected. If they had just gone out and changed the speed limit (without all this consultation) they could have done it for less than the cost of a single controlled pedestrian crossing (numbers pulled out of my behind).

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MikeAqua

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#2896742 4-Apr-2022 13:23

Even little Blenheim has a 30kmh speed limit in it's 'CBD'. Not a problem for the car. Mind you, Blenheim has so many speed bumps and roundabouts, you'd have to make a concerted effort to get up to 30kmh within the CBD.

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#2896794 4-Apr-2022 14:28

antonknee:

For those of you gnashing your teeth and asking "why'd they pick my road; there's no framework, my road doesn't make sense, this isn't fairrrrrr; woe is me; me me me" - have you read all of the quite detailed supporting information Auckland Transport have provided? Or have you just assumed they threw darts at a map/have a personal vendetta against you?

Just because you don't like a change doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do - there are more people than just yourself on this planet, and it is the role of governing bodies to govern with everyone, including the more vulnerable, in mind.

Will they have got it 100% right in every instance? No, impossible. Have they probably got it right in most of them? Yes, even if you don't like it.

Some of their ideology is concerning though, instead of repairing some very degraded roads with proper surfaces, they have been cheap and nasty and falling apart after only months, in some case weeks. And the proposal to lower the limit is claimed to make it safer, when in many instances, safer would have been to repair properly. Even at 10Kph lower than current, it is still dangerous due to the substrate wearing away from cheap "repairs"

Not all their decisions are wrong, granted. But AT as a whole are getting it extremely wrong with their planning as it stands now.

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TinyTim

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#2896818 4-Apr-2022 15:09

insane:

Your assertion rather proves my point. There needs to be a framework around what constitutes a 10,30,40,50,60,80,100 etc.

e.g
Width of road
Visibility
Length of road
Availability of foot paths
Availability of crossings
Historical incidents
Surface quality
Majority voice of local residents

Without any frame of reference it's just opinions against opinions.

My son got his restricted licence a year or so ago, and one of the most confusing things about learning to drive for him was speed limits - they never seemed to make sense. Roads that are 30 km/hr should look like roads that are 30; 50km/hr roads should look like 50km/hr roads (etc). Then people will drive at that speed, even if they miss seeing the speed sign or the red strip of paint on the road. (Yes, this is hard to retrofit but we still make 30km/hr roads that look like 50km/hr roads.)

A great example are these new streets in Richmond: https://goo.gl/maps/LznS4fh4maj8BJaL6. (They might be private streets rather than council-built which would explain why it's so well done.)

Here in Wellington we have suburbs with narrow winding streets with blind corners where the speed limit is 50, then a wide straight main street with excellent visibility where the speed limit is 30 (and often no additional pedestrians). Whereas in town it's the other way round: the main streets (Taranaki St, Kent Terrace etc) have a limit of 50 and the narrow side streets are 30.

Look at Wadestown for example: the only straight wide street in the suburb has a limit of 30, you can turn off into Weld Street (a 50m long road wide enough for one car) and you're in a 50km/h zone (https://goo.gl/maps/1qQDJJbe78xJoMyU7). There's no logic.

(I'm not a car apologist - I do most of my travel as a pedestrian.)

panther2

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#2896845 4-Apr-2022 16:10

MikeAqua:
Even little Blenheim has a 30kmh speed limit in it's 'CBD'. Not a problem for the car. Mind you, Blenheim has so many speed bumps and roundabouts, you'd have to make a concerted effort to get up to 30kmh within the CBD.

Problem with AT is that they make entire suburbs 30km where it's no different to other areas. Example rosehill papakura

Also their selection of rural roads that have or are excluded from any speed change is very odd. Doesnt seem like rational thought has been given. Many roads in franklin

1101

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#2897067 5-Apr-2022 08:58

The argument that cars wernt designed for 30kmh is a nonsense

How about the 1/2hour to 3/4hour++ stuck in Ak traffic, 1st & 2nd gear all the way , often barely moving. 30kmh would be a god send :-)

I would argue, that having speed limits that no one bothers to police AND ENFORCE , is a waste of time.
In fact, its sometimes quite dangerous to drive at low speed limits (30,40kph) , as all the other cars are driving at 50+ literally making your slow
speed a hazard .
Ive been forced to drive at above the very low speed limits as its sometimes simply not safe to drive that low

As for making things safer for pedestrians .... the biggest risk for pedestrians is their behavior.
Its the NZ way to try & dodge your way across busy streets , rather than walk literally 1 minute to the ped crossing (Ive done this myself). Fix that if you want roads safer for
pedestrians .
Ive seen an elderly couple try and push a pram (with baby in) across a VERY busy street in peak traffic, because they were too lazy to walk to the pedestrian crossing .
The safer for pedestrians argument doesnt stand up to real life .

30kmh around schools, yes, good idea. But it needs to be policed and enforced. Otherwise its ignored .

Geektastic

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#2897073 5-Apr-2022 09:21

OOI what is the effect, if any, on vehicle emissions when they are made to travel are lower speeds for more time?

Senecio

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#2897078 5-Apr-2022 09:29

If you look at any hypermiling forum I think the sweet spot is around 40-50km/hr for most cars provides the best efficiency.

TinyTim

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#2897080 5-Apr-2022 09:34

My cars are most efficient at the lowest speed they can do in top gear - 70km/h.

blackjack17

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#2897085 5-Apr-2022 09:54

They are talking about making a small number of connecting/dead end/around school streets 30km/hr. No body is suggesting arterials/motorways be reduced to 30km/hr.

The talk of efficiency is quite simply concern trolling.

Correct me if I am wrong but by dropping the speed to 30km/hr it will also allow them to modify the street scape to being appropriate for 30km/hr rather than 50km/hr. i.e. narrow the road, speed tables, cycle lanes.

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