EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2946097 25-Jul-2022 06:49

Batman:

i don't think you need to race 1000hp EVs to figure out how to make a better Nissan Leaf. BMW have built i3s since forever and they didn't need to race 1000hp EVs to figure that one out

We already know everything the Leaf did wrong.

But better, lighter inverters, thermal management, chemistries and pack designs all while being as light as possible has obvious benefits.

The original plan for Formula E was to unbundle the rules and now I think they're focusing on certain areas to concentrate the benefits, rather than creating a spending arms race within the sport.

Tinkerisk

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#2946262 25-Jul-2022 16:14

Research mission in town successfully completed by those two little „boxes“ (system relies on 5G as data link). +more info+

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SaltyNZ

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#2946271 25-Jul-2022 16:29

Technofreak:
jarledb: Sure. But look at the list and you will see that the RWD Model 3 is more effective then the AWD version of the same car.

The big question is how does a RWD compare to a FWD? Then you're doing a more balance comparison. An AWD is going to be heavier than an equivalent FWD or RWD variant of the same model. More weight to accelerate more energy needed. I'd expect the RWD version of the Model 3 to be more effective/efficient and the AWD version.

You also have to consider the fact that in (for example) the ‘22 RWD M3 the motor is rated at 193kW so tires notwithstanding, it’s not going to be giving you 250kW of regen, let alone 600kW.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#2946274 25-Jul-2022 16:33

SaltyNZ:
Technofreak:

The big question is how does a RWD compare to a FWD? Then you're doing a more balance comparison. An AWD is going to be heavier than an equivalent FWD or RWD variant of the same model. More weight to accelerate more energy needed. I'd expect the RWD version of the Model 3 to be more effective/efficient and the AWD version.

You also have to consider the fact that in (for example) the ‘22 RWD M3 the motor is rated at 193kW so tires notwithstanding, it’s not going to be giving you 250kW of regen, let alone 600kW.

Those regen levels I mentioned in my earlier post relate to the YouTube video on Formula E. A good watch if you haven't already.

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kingdragonfly

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#2946276 25-Jul-2022 16:36

Tinkerisk:
Research mission in town successfully completed by those two little „boxes“ (system relies on 5G as data link). +more info+

Here's some even more shocking information.

Tinkerisk

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#2946285 25-Jul-2022 17:19

kingdragonfly:

Here's some even more shocking information.

What is "shocking" about it is the now approved overall concept and infrastructure, which is now being scaled up in dense urban traffic and there will be no more conventional buses here in 7 years (just like no new songs by Rick Ashley - thankfully). It's about realisation, not little-boy dreams of riding the bus. The entire urban transport system (buses and subway) has to carry 1.65 million passengers safely and reliably every day. Apart from the ride-sharing operation for three years.

250 electric buses and hydrogen buses (out of about 1000 in total) are already in operation - something has to be found, since diesel buses are shockingly banned as new purchases. I think you recently converted the first diesel to electric - stunning, but good in any case!

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Dingbatt

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#2946300 25-Jul-2022 18:01

Tinkerisk:

What is "shocking" about it is the overall concept and infrastructure, which is now being scaled up in dense urban traffic and there will be no more conventional buses here in 7 years (just like no new songs by Rick Ashley - thankfully). It's about realisation, not little-boy dreams of riding the bus. The entire urban transport system (buses and subway) has to carry 1.65 million passengers safely and reliably every day.

250 electric buses and hydrogen buses (out of about 1000 in total) are already in operation - something has to be found, since diesel buses are shockingly banned as new purchases. I think you recently converted the first diesel to electric - stunning, but good!

It is these sort of scalable technologies are the future we should be looking at instead of being tied to yesterday’s light rail systems. Autonomous vehicles that run on ‘rails’ that are essentially virtual and can be changed or concentrated as demand warrants.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Scott3

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#2946344 25-Jul-2022 22:04

Technofreak:

jarledb: Sure. But look at the list and you will see that the RWD Model 3 is more effective then the AWD version of the same car.

The big question is how does a RWD compare to a FWD? Then you're doing a more balance comparison. An AWD is going to be heavier than an equivalent FWD or RWD variant of the same model. More weight to accelerate more energy needed. I'd expect the RWD version of the Model 3 to be more effective/efficient and the AWD version.

Yeah they are.

Wikipedia has the efficiency rating of the LR RWD (no longer available) and LR AWD. 16kWh/100km vs 18kWh/100km

Yip, more weight means more energy required to accelerate (and regen isn't anywhere close to 100% efficient), and more rolling resistance from the tires. More turning parts (bearings, reduction gearboxes, CV's etc) mean more drag. It's quite a bit more powerfull too, so I imagine more electrical losses in inverters etc.

Tesla does do some clever stuff (have the motor at each end set up for a different efficiency sweet spot speed, and send more power to that motor while cruising at that speed). So the difference in efficiency is kept fairly small.

Hammerer

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#2946352 25-Jul-2022 22:54

Technofreak:

jarledb: Sure. But look at the list and you will see that the RWD Model 3 is more effective then the AWD version of the same car.

The big question is how does a RWD compare to a FWD? Then you're doing a more balance comparison. An AWD is going to be heavier than an equivalent FWD or RWD variant of the same model. More weight to accelerate more energy needed. I'd expect the RWD version of the Model 3 to be more effective/efficient and the AWD version.

It might vary between Model 3 versions so might not be conclusive.

I’ve seen in more than one test that the Tesla Model 3 Performance defaults to AWD when in a straight line to give the best traction in speed tests even when set to 100% FWD or RWD, e.g.

https://youtu.be/d_LPlYxhweY

GV27

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#2946367 26-Jul-2022 06:15

Dingbatt:

It is these sort of scalable technologies are the future we should be looking at instead of being tied to yesterday’s light rail systems. Autonomous vehicles that run on ‘rails’ that are essentially virtual and can be changed or concentrated as demand warrants.

...except they aren't here and available now and our congestion problems are. Plus running steel on track is more efficient than rubber on the road, which, at the size to meaningfully replace LRT, would require an extremely heavy road bed to give the support under it than rail gives a light rail/tram system. So you would end up digging, relaying and replacing the route more often than you end up replacing tracks.

kingdragonfly

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#2946399 26-Jul-2022 08:21

By the time Tesla's hyperloop becomes more than an amusement park ride, teleportation will exist. The semi-truck, roadster, and cyber-truck are so late it's getting to the point of a pyramid scheme.

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Batman

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#2946450 26-Jul-2022 11:02

in Tesla speak, just as Full Self Drive means You're Always The Driver, Hyperloop translate exactly to Tunnel

edit - checked this is not the Tesla religion thread. phew

Batman

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#2946451 26-Jul-2022 11:02

re cybertruck apparently they are refunding deposits in AU, but only if you ask

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-cybertruck-orders-refunded-australia/

tims

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#2946652 26-Jul-2022 17:14

Looking at the NZTA website it seems that the most public chargers charge around 25c per kWh (if I've read it right).

I'm not sure how this compares to charging at home as there are other charges (line fees, daily charges etc) in the power bill. Would it be fair to say that the 25c per kWh is comparable to the average peak time rate that power company's charge across NZ or are there too many variables to work this out?

HarmLessSolutions

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#2946658 26-Jul-2022 17:29

tims:

Looking at the NZTA website it seems that the most public chargers charge around 25c per kWh (if I've read it right).

I'm not sure how this compares to charging at home as there are other charges (line fees, daily charges etc) in the power bill. Would it be fair to say that the 25c per kWh is comparable to the average peak time rate that power company's charge across NZ or are there too many variables to work this out?

Take a look at Chargenet's facilities (Bombay, Kaiwaka, etc). The HPC (300kW) rapid chargers are 60c/kWh, but you do save on the time spent charging.

You are right in assuming that the rates for50kW facilities is 25c/kWh (which is similar to peak domestic rates) but you also need to factor in the duration charge of around 25c/minute for these chargers as it can take a while if your EV requires a sizeable top up and/or has a large battery. 25kWh public chargers are often free of charge but then it depends on the value you put on your own time.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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