EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

1 | ... | 593 | 594 | 595 | 596 | 597 | 598 | 599 | 600 | 601 | 602 | 603 | ... | 728

674 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#3095202 26-Jun-2023 22:51

I see that in Australia, BYD have launched the Dolphin with an extra model to combat the MG4's low price - the "Dynamic" version of the Dolphin is AUD38,890. That would make it around NZD43,000/approx NZD$36000 with the rebate, which is the price range that I had originally assumed BYD NZ would have been going for before they stated that they didn't want to be seen as cheap and that their NZ target market was as a premium fleet car.

tieke

674 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#3095204 26-Jun-2023 22:59

tieke: I see that in Australia, BYD have launched the Dolphin with an extra model to combat the MG4's low price - the "Dynamic" version of the Dolphin...

I take that back - looking at the specs, the extra Australian Dolphin model is actually the top "sport" model, as the specs for the cheap Australian "Dynamic" model seem to be the same as the New Zealand "Standard" model, except they've listed it for around NZD $7000 less.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3095947 28-Jun-2023 18:24

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/06/green-mp-julie-anne-genter-slams-national-after-christopher-luxon-promises-to-make-electric-vehicle-drivers-pay-road-user-charges.html

Has to happen sometime. Too soon so it affects EV sales, or too soon as it adversely affects climate change?

everettpsycho

614 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3095951 28-Jun-2023 18:34

tdgeek:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/06/green-mp-julie-anne-genter-slams-national-after-christopher-luxon-promises-to-make-electric-vehicle-drivers-pay-road-user-charges.html

Has to happen sometime. Too soon so it affects EV sales, or too soon as it adversely affects climate change?

National will bring in charges that labour said are coming next year anyway. By the time they get in and work out what they are doing it'll be the same timeline as we are already on. I mean it's got a headline and certain people out there will buy in to it to stop us freeloaders so I guess that works in their favour.

Still no mentions if what exactly they plan to do about PHEVs straddling the ICE and EV line so doi le dipping or still getting a free ride.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3095960 28-Jun-2023 18:51

everettpsycho:
National will bring in charges that labour said are coming next year anyway. By the time they get in and work out what they are doing it'll be the same timeline as we are already on. I mean it's got a headline and certain people out there will buy in to it to stop us freeloaders so I guess that works in their favour.

Still no mentions if what exactly they plan to do about PHEVs straddling the ICE and EV line so doi le dipping or still getting a free ride.

Wasnt aware Labour was adding RUC in 2024, do you have a link to the details? Odd its not been a feature of the EV threads or the Chris Hipkins threads.

Ultimately its a political statement (oppose) than an EV or climate change statement

Not sustainable? Easy, if not enough $ then increase the ICE section (with allowances for those where there is no EV equivalent)

HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3095963 28-Jun-2023 18:57

tdgeek:

everettpsycho:
National will bring in charges that labour said are coming next year anyway. By the time they get in and work out what they are doing it'll be the same timeline as we are already on. I mean it's got a headline and certain people out there will buy in to it to stop us freeloaders so I guess that works in their favour.

Still no mentions if what exactly they plan to do about PHEVs straddling the ICE and EV line so doi le dipping or still getting a free ride.

Wasnt aware Labour was adding RUC in 2024, do you have a link to the details? Odd its not been a feature of the EV threads or the Chris Hipkins threads.

Ultimately its a political statement (oppose) than an EV or climate change statement

Not sustainable? Easy, if not enough $ then increase the ICE section (with allowances for those where there is no EV equivalent)

It well known among the EV fraternity that EVs will be charged RUCs from April 1st 2024. https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/road-user-charges/ruc-exemptions/

What's not so well understood is how this will effect hybrids, and PHEVs in particular. In Luxon's usual lack of detail he makes no mention of RUCs affecting hybrids and probably hasn't even considered this detail in his electioneering announcement.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Dingbatt

6756 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3095964 28-Jun-2023 19:04

Without even clicking on the link I thought “So she’s complaining about something the government was doing from 1 April next year anyway?” Talk about a non story. Maybe she’s embarrassed about her “feebate scheme” being too successful.

I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. I didn’t buy an EV to save money, or the world. I bought it because I like driving it. Everybody should pay to fund the roads and a per km charge for ALL vehicles would be the fairest way to achieve it.

If you are trying to reduce transport emissions, or want money from it, then load that on the thing that’s actually producing the emissions, the liquid fuel. To say “too soon as it adversely affects climate change” is patently ridiculous because transport is 17% of NZ’s 0.11% contribution to global emissions, so the 1.8% of the vehicle fleet that is EV means that if even 10% of potential EV buyers are put off by RUCs the overall impact is 0.00003366% change in global emissions.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

Dingbatt

6756 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3095967 28-Jun-2023 19:15

HarmLessSolutions:

What's not so well understood is how this will effect hybrids, and PHEVs in particular. In Luxon's usual lack of detail he makes no mention of RUCs affecting hybrids and probably hasn't even considered this detail in his electioneering announcement.

Did you watch the video in the linked article? He was responding to a question about the excise subsidy being removed at the end of June. Which then moved on to “Tesla Owners getting a free ride……and a rebate” (The interviewer couldn’t name another EV, but then what do you expect from people that think every phone is an iPhone and every tablet is an iPad?). Luxon’s reply was the need to move to a different funding model “where all vehicles would be charged on a per km basis”. So there’s your answer. He wasn’t announcing a transport policy, he was responding to an interview question, so how much detail do you want? The IRD have been working on this for the government for some time,

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3095968 28-Jun-2023 19:20

Dingbatt:

Without even clicking on the link I thought “So she’s complaining about something the government was doing from 1 April next year anyway?” Talk about a non story. Maybe she’s embarrassed about her “feebate scheme” being too successful.

I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. I didn’t buy an EV to save money, or the world. I bought it because I like driving it. Everybody should pay to fund the roads and a per km charge for ALL vehicles would be the fairest way to achieve it.

If you are trying to reduce transport emissions, or want money from it, then load that on the thing that’s actually producing the emissions, the liquid fuel. To say “too soon as it adversely affects climate change” is patently ridiculous because transport is 17% of NZ’s 0.11% contribution to global emissions, so the 1.8% of the vehicle fleet that is EV means that if even 10% of potential EV buyers are put off by RUCs the overall impact is 0.00003366% change in global emissions.

Yep, focus on the low hanging fruit, the 83%. One could argue that buying an EV is easier than cow farts, but cow farts exist, when EV choice didnt. How is running the kids to school or going to New World, offset by electrifying food and goods transport? The latter is huge. The former will occur naturally.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3095971 28-Jun-2023 19:28

HarmLessSolutions:

It well known among the EV fraternity that EVs will be charged RUCs from April 1st 2024. https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/road-user-charges/ruc-exemptions/

What's not so well understood is how this will effect hybrids, and PHEVs in particular. In Luxon's usual lack of detail he makes no mention of RUCs affecting hybrids and probably hasn't even considered this detail in his electioneering announcement.

Thanks for the link. If RUC is EV's is charged the mileage, thats easy. The others is tricky. You may push demand to the others. Perhaps there will be a rate where plug ins or hybrids pay RUC by mileage and they can claim back petrol receipts. Slightly messy, but not that messy. Or every vehicle pays RUC by mileage. Messier

I'll take that back, make all vehicles pay RUC. Online app, easy, top up off you want to. WOF day will see you have a credit, ir if in debit pay up to get the WOF. It will be this way, so why not now?

HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3095979 28-Jun-2023 20:29

Dingbatt:

HarmLessSolutions:

What's not so well understood is how this will effect hybrids, and PHEVs in particular. In Luxon's usual lack of detail he makes no mention of RUCs affecting hybrids and probably hasn't even considered this detail in his electioneering announcement.

Did you watch the video in the linked article? He was responding to a question about the excise subsidy being removed at the end of June. Which then moved on to “Tesla Owners getting a free ride……and a rebate” (The interviewer couldn’t name another EV, but then what do you expect from people that think every phone is an iPhone and every tablet is an iPad?). Luxon’s reply was the need to move to a different funding model “where all vehicles would be charged on a per km basis”. So there’s your answer. He wasn’t announcing a transport policy, he was responding to an interview question, so how much detail do you want? The IRD have been working on this for the government for some time,

I usually avoid watching the infotainment pieces done by that interviewer because his base knowledge and political biases make such 'interviews' meaningless and having now watched the interview my strategy is confirmed as sound. Giving Luxon a free pass by leading the conversation onto EVs and RUCs was so transparently a premeditated electioneering opportunity which Luxon then went with.

The interviewer as you have stated had no knowledge of EVs beyond the one brand, plus Leafs when prompted, and his comment about RUCs being levied on EVs "in a couple of years" was a totally unresearched throw away trolling one. As Luxon had no correction to offer on this time frame he was either ignorant of the April 1st 2024 implementation date or was just milking the situation for political gain.

That RUCs will be levied on EVs from 1/04/2024 is pretty much a given and it will need to be distance based by necessity. The same charge will need to apply to PHEVs or else a loophole is created as they can avoid RUCs by restricting their travel to within their battery range so effectively remaining solely EV so the complication then occurs with how to avoid the RUC component of the petrol they use.

One solution is to remove RUCs from petrol and charge all road vehicles on a distance travelled basis, as diesels currently do. This would solve the problem of the unfair taxation of boats, power tools and off road vehicles whose fuel price helps pay for roading that they don't use.

An existing problem however where RUC distance monitoring is an essentially honesty based system with fraud such as via odometer tampering is possible. Solution is by way of an in vehicle GPS linked monitoring system similar to that used by E-Road fleet monitoring. Most modern vehicles have an OBD which can be used for this purpose and for older vehicles a dashtop unit such as those used for toll charges in Australia would work. This monitoring could input into an automated charging system to avoid overwhelming of services who currently issue RUC 'kilometres'.

A monitoring system with individual vehicle identification could be used to harvest congestion charges by geolocation and could be segregated to vehicle fuel type to incentivise or more heavily tax vehicles on the basis of fuel, weight, ICE size, etc as a continuation of the current promotion of EVs.

As you've stated there is a lot of behind the scenes work going on currently in regard to the future structure of our RUC taxation system and no doubt details of its future will become apparent as we near the EV RUC deadline next March.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#3095986 28-Jun-2023 21:03

everettpsycho:
National will bring in charges that labour said are coming next year anyway. By the time they get in and work out what they are doing it'll be the same timeline as we are already on. I mean it's got a headline and certain people out there will buy in to it to stop us freeloaders so I guess that works in their favour.

Still no mentions if what exactly they plan to do about PHEVs straddling the ICE and EV line so doi le dipping or still getting a free ride.

I'm sure National also hopes that we forget that they're the ones who implemented the RUC exemption for EVs

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

mudguard

2118 posts

Uber Geek

#3096094 29-Jun-2023 06:38

tdgeek:

Thanks for the link. If RUC is EV's is charged the mileage, thats easy. The others is tricky. You may push demand to the others. Perhaps there will be a rate where plug ins or hybrids pay RUC by mileage and they can claim back petrol receipts. Slightly messy, but not that messy. Or every vehicle pays RUC by mileage. Messier

I'll take that back, make all vehicles pay RUC. Online app, easy, top up off you want to. WOF day will see you have a credit, ir if in debit pay up to get the WOF. It will be this way, so why not now?

Everyone paying RUC would probably be the fairest, but man, there needs to be a more elegant solution. Imagine paying it at WOF time, it would like be paying your power bill annually.

My partner had a diesel car for awhile, and it seemed she was always having to top up RUCS. And I drive a petrol car 40-50,000kms per year, I'd need a direct debit each week!

cshwone

1070 posts

Uber Geek

#3096099 29-Jun-2023 07:16

mudguard:
tdgeek:

Thanks for the link. If RUC is EV's is charged the mileage, thats easy. The others is tricky. You may push demand to the others. Perhaps there will be a rate where plug ins or hybrids pay RUC by mileage and they can claim back petrol receipts. Slightly messy, but not that messy. Or every vehicle pays RUC by mileage. Messier

I'll take that back, make all vehicles pay RUC. Online app, easy, top up off you want to. WOF day will see you have a credit, ir if in debit pay up to get the WOF. It will be this way, so why not now?

Everyone paying RUC would probably be the fairest, but man, there needs to be a more elegant solution. Imagine paying it at WOF time, it would like be paying your power bill annually.

My partner had a diesel car for awhile, and it seemed she was always having to top up RUCS. And I drive a petrol car 40-50,000kms per year, I'd need a direct debit each week!

And new cars don't have a WOF until year 3.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3096101 29-Jun-2023 07:34

mudguard:

Everyone paying RUC would probably be the fairest, but man, there needs to be a more elegant solution. Imagine paying it at WOF time, it would like be paying your power bill annually.

My partner had a diesel car for awhile, and it seemed she was always having to top up RUCS. And I drive a petrol car 40-50,000kms per year, I'd need a direct debit each week!

I have mates with diesel, some are Ranger type vehicles some are just SUV's, they don't seem to have a problem. You buy mileage, then use it, then buy more. WOF would just be a verification. To make it even easier. an app can be created, top it up. What I would do is what I do with many regular bills, set up recurring internet banking and forget about it. Periodically check if its enough, increase if so, or decrease if I'm slightly over paying, too easy.

1 | ... | 593 | 594 | 595 | 596 | 597 | 598 | 599 | 600 | 601 | 602 | 603 | ... | 728