Clean Car Standard

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#2645186 1-Feb-2021 11:29

The attitude of the manufacturers needs to change and apply more pressure on their suppliers to clean up their act. The premature deaths from emissions especially from diesel engines must also be a concern. Kids living today in Aotearoa will endure much more that just living further from the beach. Increasing extreme weather events, crop failures, food shortages, famine, diseases etc etc are just a few of the ills that will beset them if WE do not change now.

Dingbatt

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#2645187 1-Feb-2021 11:34

MileHighKiwi:

I think my kids needing to live a bit further away from the beach in 50 years is nothing compared with the plight of kids in developing nations today.

What!

How dare you use RCP 2.4 instead of RCP 8.5 (/s)

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Jaxson

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#2645198 1-Feb-2021 12:21

If we want to make a change (or have to to meet committed reduction targets) then we need to reduce our use of fossil fuels.

I purchased a heat pump to replace a gas heater because ANZ offered an interest free loan for that purpose.

Australia did it (initially at least) for home solar installs.

Do the same for EV or Hybrid cars and you'll see a move to this. It's plainly obvious people will move in that direction if a carrot is dangled to encourage them there.

I don't think reference to Audi or Teslas needs to come into this either. If you're considering those cars then the pricing is similar between petrol and EV as has been pointed out.
At the lower end of the scale you're talking Leaf or Prius type purchases and that's where people need a hand.

A $5k saving on any EV makes a big difference at the lower end (where more of the population will be looking) than at the top, where those above can afford the fancier cars.

Over complication of processes never works well. Means testing means those who can afford accountants and run their own businesses will do better than those in the middle who can not.
Those right at the bottom are not going to buy a new EV regardless of $5k off a new Yaris Hybrid at $33,000.

Obraik

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#2645199 1-Feb-2021 12:22

Yetti92:

I'm aware of that, it's more the point that they haven't done anything about the safety of used imports at the same time as emissions.

That is on the cards too

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vexxxboy

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#2645209 1-Feb-2021 12:45

am i missing something here, can someone explain to me where the 4 million electronic cars are coming from to replace the fossil cars in the next 10 years and how many of them will be under $10,000 that the majority of people will spend on a car and for most that is a struggle to afford, i would buy a electric car in a heartbeat if they were around $5,000 and will the infrastructure be in place to charge 4 million cars on peoples travels , if it has been answered please forgive me and point me in the right direction to where the info is.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Obraik

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#2645214 1-Feb-2021 12:51

vexxxboy:

am i missing something here, can someone explain to me where the 4 million electronic cars are coming from to replace the fossil cars in the next 10 years and how many of them will be under $10,000 that the majority of people will spend on a car and for most that is a struggle to afford, i would buy a electric car in a heartbeat if they were around $5,000 and will the infrastructure be in place to charge 4 million cars on peoples travels , if it has been answered please forgive me and point me in the right direction to where the info is.

Firstly, we have a lot of planned & consented power stations waiting for demand.

Prices are also coming down. In the next 3-4 years it is predicted that EVs will reach price parity with ICE vehicles. From that point they will be cheaper than them. There is already evidence of this happening - the MG ZS EV brand new is $48k, the cheapest a new EV has ever been in NZ. This problem is also why most developed countries offer subsidies to encourage those who do buy new vehicles to pick the EV option and consequently, supply the second hand market later on down the road.

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Jaxson

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#2645215 1-Feb-2021 12:56

Obraik:

Firstly, we have a lot of planned & consented power stations waiting for demand.

There will be delivery infrastructure change requirements to support the extra load down residential streets too.

Planning for this should be underway too, as the uptake of heat pumps will be adding to this as well.

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mdooher

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#2645218 1-Feb-2021 13:02

Obraik:

Firstly, we have a lot of planned & consented power stations waiting for demand.

Prices are also coming down. In the next 3-4 years it is predicted that EVs will reach price parity with ICE vehicles. From that point they will be cheaper than them. There is already evidence of this happening - the MG ZS EV brand new is $48k, the cheapest a new EV has ever been in NZ. This problem is also why most developed countries offer subsidies to encourage those who do buy new vehicles to pick the EV option and consequently, supply the second hand market later on down the road.

In that case why does the government need to legislate? Once the cars are cheaper and better people will buy them. As I said in a previous post, the same thing happened with energy efficient lightbulbs.

Just leave people alone, legislation just pisses people off and makes them dig their toes in.

Matthew

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#2645219 1-Feb-2021 13:06

mdooher:

In that case why does the government need to legislate? Once the cars are cheaper and better people will buy them. As I said in a previous post, the same thing happened with energy efficient lightbulbs.

Just leave people alone, legislation just pisses people off and makes them dig their toes in.

Providing subsidies makes people dig their toes in? I don't think so. As evident by the success of such EV subsidies in other countries. Most people couldn't care less about what their car is powered by, as long as it fits into their budget. Only some stubborn old mates will make a point of not going that way.

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tdgeek

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#2645222 1-Feb-2021 13:12

Obraik:

Firstly, we have a lot of planned & consented power stations waiting for demand.

Prices are also coming down. In the next 3-4 years it is predicted that EVs will reach price parity with ICE vehicles. From that point they will be cheaper than them. There is already evidence of this happening - the MG ZS EV brand new is $48k, the cheapest a new EV has ever been in NZ. This problem is also why most developed countries offer subsidies to encourage those who do buy new vehicles to pick the EV option and consequently, supply the second hand market later on down the road.

Yes, $49k is cheap. 263km range not that good. The ZS is $23k A quick scan of the features doesn't show anything mind bloggingly superior

27k premium or 25k on the next model up, that's quite a putoff. It makes the 49k seem expensive. The website says British but it's China made? If the ICE is 23k that seems awfully low cost for a small SUV? Assume lower quality?

Admittedy, 49k less 8k subsidy is 41k, not bad

mdooher

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#2645223 1-Feb-2021 13:13

Obraik:

mdooher:

In that case why does the government need to legislate? Once the cars are cheaper and better people will buy them. As I said in a previous post, the same thing happened with energy efficient lightbulbs.

Just leave people alone, legislation just pisses people off and makes them dig their toes in.

Providing subsidies makes people dig their toes in? I don't think so. As evident by the success of such EV subsidies in other countries. Most people couldn't care less about what their car is powered by, as long as it fits into their budget. Only some stubborn old mates will make a point of not going that way.

Providing subsidies pisses off people that have to pay for those subsidies. Eg at the moment letting people with electric cars get away without paying road user tax.

Matthew

tdgeek

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#2645224 1-Feb-2021 13:17

Obraik:

mdooher:

In that case why does the government need to legislate? Once the cars are cheaper and better people will buy them. As I said in a previous post, the same thing happened with energy efficient lightbulbs.

Just leave people alone, legislation just pisses people off and makes them dig their toes in.

Providing subsidies makes people dig their toes in? I don't think so. As evident by the success of such EV subsidies in other countries. Most people couldn't care less about what their car is powered by, as long as it fits into their budget. Only some stubborn old mates will make a point of not going that way.

Norway is a country you have mentioned in the past, an article I read the other day showed that with subsidies and other concessions EV's are at the same price level as ICE, we can do that.

True they dont care what its powered by (apart from the oh it's a battery mindset) they care about the cost and the fuel economy. With these premiums few will want to pay up front for what is effectively a huge amount of fuel in advance (if they had an ICE)

If subsidies equal ICE prices, sorted, if as you say they will equal EV's in 3 years, then sorted

vexxxboy

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#2645225 1-Feb-2021 13:18

tdgeek:

Obraik:

Firstly, we have a lot of planned & consented power stations waiting for demand.

Prices are also coming down. In the next 3-4 years it is predicted that EVs will reach price parity with ICE vehicles. From that point they will be cheaper than them. There is already evidence of this happening - the MG ZS EV brand new is $48k, the cheapest a new EV has ever been in NZ. This problem is also why most developed countries offer subsidies to encourage those who do buy new vehicles to pick the EV option and consequently, supply the second hand market later on down the road.

Yes, $49k is cheap. 263km range not that good. The ZS is $23k A quick scan of the features doesn't show anything mind bloggingly superior

27k premium or 25k on the next model up, that's quite a putoff. It makes the 49k seem expensive. The website says British but it's China made? If the ICE is 23k that seems awfully low cost for a small SUV? Assume lower quality?

Admittedy, 49k less 8k subsidy is 41k, not bad

still not under $10,000 that the large majority of low to middle income families can only afford

Common sense is not as common as you think.

richms

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#2645226 1-Feb-2021 13:21

Jaxson:

There will be delivery infrastructure change requirements to support the extra load down residential streets too.

Planning for this should be underway too, as the uptake of heat pumps will be adding to this as well.

It already is around here, but then again vector are still catching up on the decades of neglect from before they bought the network.

Many more ground mount transformers going in, bigger ones than before. But even then they say small numbers on them still, not a megawatt or 2 like I would expect if people start to want to charge at speed at home and have multiple cars.

Richard rich.ms

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#2645229 1-Feb-2021 13:25

mdooher:

Providing subsidies pisses off people that have to pay for those subsidies. Eg at the moment letting people with electric cars get away without paying road user tax.

In the case of what has been proposed here, the subsidy would be fed by those who still choose to buy high emitting vehicles. Seems fair that those who choose to cause damage should help fund those that want to do the right thing.

It also seems fair that I don't pay for RUC while ICE vehicles currently don't pay anything substantial for the damage they're doing to the environment 😉

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