Lets Get Welly Moving releases its options for Wellington Transport

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#2936317 30-Jun-2022 08:58

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Then $134 Million over 80,000 rateable properties is around an extra $1600 per rateable property, per year.

Either way, it'll be a big cost for the people of Wellington to have to pay for.

There have all ready been large rates increases this year, now they want to increase them even more ?

Buried Deep in the LGWM are plans for "alternative" funding sources,

They looked at both Congestion charging, and also a commuter car parking levy,

They estimated that the Congestion charge wouldn't make much money ( in fact it would probably cost more to run than it brought in )

But the Parking Levy on all day parking (basically parking buildings and private business parks) could bring up to $50 million a year, ( if they taxed each park $5000/year)

trig42

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#2936318 30-Jun-2022 09:02

Lots of grand ideas, get people distracted and talking. Talkin, unfortunately, is all that ever seems to be happening with these things.

in 2017, Labour promised tracks in the ground for Auckland's light rail by 2020.

2022, crickets and still more talking. And it's not like they've had Winston saying NO for the last couple of years either.

Why oh why does it take soooo long to get anything done in this country. All the while, the prices are going up.

MikeAqua

7779 posts

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#2936322 30-Jun-2022 09:18

trig42:

Why oh why does it take soooo long to get anything done in this country. All the while, the prices are going up.

Because no-one ever wants to pay for it.

Personally I'm happy to use and pay for public transport if it's reliable and gets me where I need to go at something approximating the correct time.

On that note, it's great to see an airport flyer type service has been reinstated.

Mike

trig42

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#2936325 30-Jun-2022 09:23

They just don't want to pay for it in their short 3 year term. Very short sighted.

All the while, a little boy waits...

MikeB4

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#2936408 30-Jun-2022 11:34

trig42:

Lots of grand ideas, get people distracted and talking. Talkin, unfortunately, is all that ever seems to be happening with these things.

in 2017, Labour promised tracks in the ground for Auckland's light rail by 2020.

2022, crickets and still more talking. And it's not like they've had Winston saying NO for the last couple of years either.

Why oh why does it take soooo long to get anything done in this country. All the while, the prices are going up.

Resource Management Act, Lawyers, and incredible resistance to change. One just has to look at the crying, protest and hysteria nearly every time a new cycle lane or cycle way is proposed.

Dingbatt

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#2936411 30-Jun-2022 11:37

Move government departments out of Wellington and get it moving overnight.

Oh and at $15B the Auckland light rail would cost $3000 for every NZer and benefit 100000 Aucklanders (at most). Yesterday’s solution to today’s problem, tomorrow.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

MikeB4

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#2936415 30-Jun-2022 11:41

Dingbatt:

Move government departments out of Wellington and get it moving overnight.

There is a lot of sense in that. The same could apply to all the central Auckland corporate HQs. There does not need to be huge centralised city office complexes, surely Covid-19 as shown us that.

Lenovo

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trig42

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#2936429 30-Jun-2022 12:06

Dingbatt:

Move government departments out of Wellington and get it moving overnight.

Oh and at $15B the Auckland light rail would cost $3000 for every NZer and benefit 100000 Aucklanders (at most). Yesterday’s solution to today’s problem, tomorrow.

So, for Auckland, we should just do nothing?

Whatever happens isn't going to be cheap, and it isn't going to benefit everyone, though I don't believe LR would only benefit 100,000 people. Sure, it may be within reach and use of 100,000, but getting them into mass transit and out of cars (or even buses that clog up CBD streets) will benefit a lot more than that. Also, once one section is built, it can be extended both east and north and north-west (the Northern Busway was built so it could be converted to light rail in the future).

Building more roads is not the answer, that just leads to induced demand - more people using cars as there are more roads - and urban sprawl - as we have bigger roads, there's less space for houses along/amongst them.

GV27

5896 posts

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#2936430 30-Jun-2022 12:15

Dingbatt:

Move government departments out of Wellington and get it moving overnight.

Oh and at $15B the Auckland light rail would cost $3000 for every NZer and benefit 100000 Aucklanders (at most). Yesterday’s solution to today’s problem, tomorrow.

Light Rail in Auckland is a scam. It could be done for single-digit billions but no one wants to inconvenience drivers so they're tunneling most of it.

You should be able to buy a whole LRT network for what they want to spend on that one line if they'd used sane surface level costings, but they chose not to.

Dingbatt

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#2936437 30-Jun-2022 12:33

trig42:

So, for Auckland, we should just do nothing?

I don’t want to turn this Wellington thread into an Auckland one, so my response applies equally to any metro area.

Where in my comment did I say “Do Nothing”?

My point of view is that by the time a hugely expensive rail system is built in corridors that don’t have the population density to support them, technologies like EVs, autonomous vehicles, ridesharing will remove the main environmental and productivity benefits proffered by champions of this old technology.

To me, set the systems to take advantage of the future and spend the money on housing, health, education, reliable renewable energy and encouraging movement out of congested (and earthquake prone) metro centres. As Mike said, Covid has proven there is very little need for things to be concentrated in city centres.

$12000 per household is a lot of money for a vanity project.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

MikeAqua

7779 posts

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#2936438 30-Jun-2022 12:35

trig42:

They just don't want to pay for it in their short 3 year term. Very short sighted.

All the while, a little boy waits...

It's not just the politicians. It's the ratepayers and the passengers who are tight fisted as well.

Mike

GV27

5896 posts

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#2936446 30-Jun-2022 12:49

Dingbatt:

My point of view is that by the time a hugely expensive rail system is built in corridors that don’t have the population density to support them, technologies like EVs, autonomous vehicles, ridesharing will remove the main environmental and productivity benefits proffered by champions of this old technology.

You get that building the corridor enables the density, right? The changes to the planning legislation that went through in 2020 just before the election effectively uncorked development height limits along rapid transit routes, but you have to build the rapid transit for that to actually happen.

And "waiting for self-driving vehicles and ridesharing" IS a do-nothing approach, waiting for tech that's always just five years away.

Mass transit is still the most effective way to move big groups of people, otherwise you need huge roading corridors to move the same number of people along them. Stick in a light rail line, uprate the development potential of the area, shift the same number of people far quicker than if they're all commuting in SOV from suburbs miles away.

Dingbatt

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#2936449 30-Jun-2022 12:54

GV27:

You get that building the corridor enables the density, right?

No. Having only ever seen MRT systems in London, New York, Washington DC, San Francisco, Singapore, Tokyo and Shanghai, I had no idea they enabled density (/s). Or does density enable them?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

GV27

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#2936454 30-Jun-2022 12:58

Dingbatt:

Or does density enable them?

I'm not the one who's saying 'corridors don't have the population density to justify rapid transit' so you're asking the wrong bloke.

Eva888

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#2936457 30-Jun-2022 13:03

Why can’t they build light rail over the top of existing roads as they do in Bangkok, cars driving underneath. No tunnels, platforms into some of the buildings along the way.

Sections can be built off site to cause less disruption and then bolted in place on foundations along the way. They could even make it wider to have a cycleway the entire length. Dreaming...

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