Road Blocks Summer 21/22: legal?

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#2823505 3-Dec-2021 08:32

MikeB4:

clearly you have no idea of the deep longstanding serious issues facing the tangata whenua of Northland and Eastcape and I suspect you don't care. These areas have extremely poor housing, rundown health services, low funded educations services, very few doctors, low employment etc etc etc. They have been marginalised, ignored by successive governments and the regions neglected. However the privileged believe they should be welcomed with open arms and yet abuse the hospitality. Like I said dig deeper and learn.

Is this not partly a choice? If I live in Auckland I can get pizza 24 hours a day. If I live on Stewart Island, pizza is not so easy to get. I'd be choosing to live in Stewart Island for other benefits and accept my midnight pizza cravings will have to be self-fulfilled instead.

As for the abuse of hospitality, unfortunately there are ratbags in every bunch. Both domenstic travellers and tangata whenua for the purposes of this conversation. These people have a habit of spoiling things for the rest of the bunch.

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#2823566 3-Dec-2021 08:51

Dynamic:

Is this not partly a choice? If I live in Auckland I can get pizza 24 hours a day. If I live on Stewart Island, pizza is not so easy to get. I'd be choosing to live in Stewart Island for other benefits and accept my midnight pizza cravings will have to be self-fulfilled instead.

As for the abuse of hospitality, unfortunately there are ratbags in every bunch. Both domenstic travellers and tangata whenua for the purposes of this conversation. These people have a habit of spoiling things for the rest of the bunch.

Correct, we've seen that in Auckland during our lockdown too.

I just don't think it's practical to point to decades-long issues of neglect and equity in Northland as a reason why it should be walled off. Successive governments caused it, it will take successive governments to fix it.

No one leaving Auckland will be unvaxxed, and it sounds like the main road is going to be checked with the support of the police - that seems like a pretty good middle-ground tbh. You can't design a system that people who are determined to flout won't just get around or flout anyway - even under a hard border, Covid still got in there. Given the potential for huge queues, I suspect many who were on the fence about going North this year may just decide to give it a miss.

And tbh, Northlanders are doing a bloody good job of getting vaccinated - this info is a week old, those are some respectable numbers - comparable with CMDHB.

https://www.northlanddhb.org.nz/home/covid-19/covid-vaccination-progress

MikeB4

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#2823573 3-Dec-2021 08:56

Dynamic:

MikeB4:

clearly you have no idea of the deep longstanding serious issues facing the tangata whenua of Northland and Eastcape and I suspect you don't care. These areas have extremely poor housing, rundown health services, low funded educations services, very few doctors, low employment etc etc etc. They have been marginalised, ignored by successive governments and the regions neglected. However the privileged believe they should be welcomed with open arms and yet abuse the hospitality. Like I said dig deeper and learn.

Is this not partly a choice? If I live in Auckland I can get pizza 24 hours a day. If I live on Stewart Island, pizza is not so easy to get. I'd be choosing to live in Stewart Island for other benefits and accept my midnight pizza cravings will have to be self-fulfilled instead.

As for the abuse of hospitality, unfortunately there are ratbags in every bunch. Both domenstic travellers and tangata whenua for the purposes of this conversation. These people have a habit of spoiling things for the rest of the bunch.

Choice? no, poverty trap? yes. Living with long term unemployment because of the poverty trap perpetuates the poverty trap. Income support does not stretch to provide for savings to build the funds to cover such things as, transporting household belongings, bond for rental in the city(yeah right) deposit for a home, nope. New school uniforms, electricity bonds etc etc etc.

We don't think twice about driving to the doctor to get vaccinated. For many its a long distance given the serious lack of GPs and that petrol could well be the food for the week if they can in fact fill the car due to the lack of filling stations especially East Coast.

People say "get vaccinated" its easy for middle class city folk but its not for marginalised rural.

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#2823615 3-Dec-2021 10:25

Plans for borders at the Bay of Islands canned, Tai Tokerau Border Control and police measures revealed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/plans-for-borders-at-the-bay-of-islands-canned-tai-tokerau-border-control-and-police-measures-revealed/4YAI44JRV5WRX7LUFUJFKOU6HM/

Reading between the lines, the reliant groups have been told that a law change is not going to be made to legalize what they propose. Cutting off a major tourism destination (who's businesses have been doing it tough), despite the move to the protection framework was never going to be politically palatable.

However it seems that the north-land police, for the sake of goodwill have agreed to work with the groups for a week or so to run checkpoints (seen as it seems that is what the groups like doing), to verify visitors / holiday makers were complying with the actual travel criteria. On the face of it it seems a pretty reasonable outcome.

Suggest it is largely a waste of time for the iwi groups. The restrictions just apply to people traveling from Auckland... In line with this the check points will be allowing locals & freight to pass, and targeting the obvious holiday makers.

Auckland has high vaccination rates compared to north land, so compliance will be high by default. Given free tests are available, there is not really any reason for those that don't have a vaccine pass to not get one. But for those who are unwilling for whatever reason, the text response for the free test is easily defrauded, or other routes into the area can be taken.

The location is a bit questionable too given the restrictions apply to those crossing the border with Auckland. Will capture a lot of travel not involving Auckland, and will be hard to check people origins of travel.

Will really come down to local relationships if it is worth it for the police. I imagine it will take a lot of police resources. Under the recent law change, iwi representatives are allowed to stop vehicle's & people, but I understand have no powers beyond that. Meaning a police officer will need to come to every car where the occupants choose not to disclose any information to the iwi representatives (a reasonable decision from a privacy perspective).

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#2823633 3-Dec-2021 10:51

Scott3:

Under the recent law change, iwi representatives are allowed to stop vehicle's & people, but I understand have no powers beyond that. Meaning a police officer will need to come to every car where the occupants choose not to disclose any information to the iwi representatives (a reasonable decision from a privacy perspective).

I believe they can only do this if under the supervision of officers in the first place.

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#2823722 3-Dec-2021 12:02

GV27:

Scott3:

Under the recent law change, iwi representatives are allowed to stop vehicle's & people, but I understand have no powers beyond that. Meaning a police officer will need to come to every car where the occupants choose not to disclose any information to the iwi representatives (a reasonable decision from a privacy perspective).

I believe they can only do this if under the supervision of officers in the first place.

Correct.

But I suggest that there will need to be a fairly significant police presence on site (2+ 24/7), in order to take over discussions with any people who choose not to share their personal information with the iwi representatives. Police have powers to compel people to provide certain information.

frankv

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#2823777 3-Dec-2021 14:04

Certainly, iwi-alone roadblocks are illegal. They don't have the right to block public roads, no matter how well-intentioned they might be. And, cynically, I think this is more about grandstanding and claiming "rights" than any good intentions. However, police do have the right to stop motorists (and people in general?) and verify their identity without needing to have any reason. (Hence there is a veil of legality over breath-testing checkpoints where you are made to stop and asked to speak your address into the breath analyser. If the machine beeps, they then have probable cause for further action. But I digress). So it's legal for police to stop you and Hone & his mates could then "give you information" if you agree to it. And I'd expect the provision of information to feel like being directed what to do.

But see below the response I got from Covid19 Response [DPMC] <Covid19Response@dpmc.govt.nz> when I queried about living in a red area (work from home if you can) but working in an adjacent orange area. Based on that, I'd say it would be illegal for the police (let alone iwi) to prevent anyone from going anywhere they wanted (apart from the temporary restrictions around Auckland). Again, I'd expect a fair amount of coercion with "information being provided" in a perhaps intimidating manner to encourage some motorists to decide "of their own accord" to turn around. But if the motorist stood their ground, they would have to be allowed to proceed.

We have updated information on our website about travel under the traffic light settings: Travel at Red | Unite against COVID-19 (covid19.govt.nz).

You can travel anywhere in New Zealand at Red settings. [my emphasis] There are no boundaries under the traffic lights, but there are temporary restrictions travelling for travel into and out of Auckland.

You can travel for any reason and you do not need a vaccine pass or a negative COVID-19 test.

If you are travelling into a different setting area, you will need to follow the guidance for that area when you are there.

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#2823886 3-Dec-2021 15:59

MikeB4:

Choice? no, poverty trap? yes. Living with long term unemployment because of the poverty trap perpetuates the poverty trap. Income support does not stretch to provide for savings to build the funds to cover such things as, transporting household belongings, bond for rental in the city(yeah right) deposit for a home, nope. New school uniforms, electricity bonds etc etc etc.

We don't think twice about driving to the doctor to get vaccinated. For many its a long distance given the serious lack of GPs and that petrol could well be the food for the week if they can in fact fill the car due to the lack of filling stations especially East Coast.

People say "get vaccinated" its easy for middle class city folk but its not for marginalised rural.

The vaccines are free, on top of that, as someone who has seen the effort by Government, community, healthcare and everyone in between to help those less advantaged, personally, to have a vaccination that could save their lives, there is really little to no excuse at this point.

There are buses going to communities, GP's going to homes, politicians and health professionals going to Maraes, financial incentives being offered, taxi vouchers being provided and every other concession you could possibly make. GP's are calling house to house on the phone, many in their own time, talking to people, answering questions. These communities need to accept that this is all to help keep them safe and potentially save their lives. If people can make the effort to man a roadblock, they can get a vaccination, or help someone else get one, and that will reduce the need for it.

These communities will need to bear some responsibility for their own health and safety too.

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#2824114 4-Dec-2021 07:54

networkn:

If people can make the effort to man a roadblock, they can get a vaccination, or help someone else get one, and that will reduce the need for it.

This is so important it bears repeating. If you have able adults that can spend time on a roadside harassing others, then you can have these people going down door-to-door getting people vaccinated or taking them to a vaccination centre.

Handle9

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#2824130 4-Dec-2021 08:53

freitasm:
networkn:

If people can make the effort to man a roadblock, they can get a vaccination, or help someone else get one, and that will reduce the need for it.

This is so important it bears repeating. If you have able adults that can spend time on a roadside harassing others, then you can have these people going down door-to-door getting people vaccinated or taking them to a vaccination centre.

It appears to be news to many that they are.

The MOH paid very little attention when they were told that this would happen. When Māori communities are having to fundraise for vaccination buses there’s something badly wrong.

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#2824278 4-Dec-2021 16:15

Handle9:

It appears to be news to many that they are.

The MOH paid very little attention when they were told that this would happen. When Māori communities are having to fundraise for vaccination buses there’s something badly wrong.

The whole vaccination roll out was designed by office dwellers who have no concept of how people live in relatively isolated rural areas. They don't travel to a main centres often, they don't have access to public transport etc, etc.

It's not just Maori who have been affected, it's anyone who lives in a relatively isolated area. In some areas like Northland and the East Coast those isolated communities are predominantly Maori.

It is a sad commentary that they had to fund their own vaccination service, good on them for taking the initiative. However manning road blocks doesn't get vulnerable people vaccinated.

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#2824281 4-Dec-2021 16:20

Technofreak:
Handle9:

It appears to be news to many that they are.

The MOH paid very little attention when they were told that this would happen. When Māori communities are having to fundraise for vaccination buses there’s something badly wrong.

The whole vaccination roll out was designed by office dwellers who have no concept of how people live in relatively isolated rural areas. They don't travel to a main centres often, they don't have access to public transport etc, etc.

It's not just Maori who have been affected, it's anyone who lives in a relatively isolated area. In some areas like Northland and the East Coast those isolated communities are predominantly Maori.

It is a sad commentary that they had to fund their own vaccination service, good on them for taking the initiative. However manning road blocks doesn't get vulnerable people vaccinated.

The two activities are not mutually exclusive.

Technofreak

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#2824343 4-Dec-2021 19:33

Handle9:
Technofreak:

The whole vaccination roll out was designed by office dwellers who have no concept of how people live in relatively isolated rural areas. They don't travel to a main centres often, they don't have access to public transport etc, etc.

It's not just Maori who have been affected, it's anyone who lives in a relatively isolated area. In some areas like Northland and the East Coast those isolated communities are predominantly Maori.

It is a sad commentary that they had to fund their own vaccination service, good on them for taking the initiative. However manning road blocks doesn't get vulnerable people vaccinated.

The two activities are not mutually exclusive.

Except one of those activities is basically a waste of time and is in reality just grandstanding.

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#2824410 4-Dec-2021 19:44

I noticed that here in the Wairarapa you can book for them to come and vaccinate you at your location.

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#2824512 4-Dec-2021 22:57

Handle9:

It appears to be news to many that they are.

The MOH paid very little attention when they were told that this would happen. When Māori communities are having to fundraise for vaccination buses there’s something badly wrong.

Initially, that may well have been true, I have been plenty critical of the MOH who I think are one of the most incompetent groups, which has continuously headed downhill under this Government, however, the effort expended to meet the requests/requirements of the least accessible in NZ has been quite extraordinary, and certainly right now, you'd have to be trying pretty hard to NOT get a vaccination here.

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