EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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295 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3131318 24-Sep-2023 15:08

jonathan18: Voice control is (I believe) limited to the higher-spec models; button on steering wheel does diddly in my wife’s Excite. Annoyingly it doesn’t seem to even summon the Google Assistant when AA is running.

Yep, there are direct buttons to turn heating on/off, and to de-mist the front window. Default screen has sliders for fan speed and temp. But the easiest way is to assign one of the two shortcut buttons on the steering wheel (one each side) to the AC; press that and the L/R and U/D buttons on that side of the steering wheel control temp and fan speed. (A visual representation of the controls shows on the screen after pressing the shortcut button; press the same button to return out of that and get rid of the visuals.)

TBH, I find this method way more intuitive than adjusting the aircon in my Tesla; I wish Tesla would introduce the same comprehensive steering wheel controls, not just the ability to do one action via a shortcut.

As for those shortcut buttons - they currently only provide for three options, and the same ones are available on both sides: drive mode, AC and (I think) regen level. I don’t care about regen as even the highest setting is less than I’d prefer, and drive mode is not that fundamental - eco makes a noticeable difference to power delivery (though nothing as debilitating as the ‘eco’ in the G1 Leaf), and sport doesn’t seem to make a huge change.

I think this is a lost opportunity to provide a much wider range for the shortcut buttons - my preference would be to add one pedal driving, especially if they’re not going to make this a ‘sticky’ setting (currently it needs to be reenabled every time one drives).

Thanks - that is super helpful.

Peter

frankv

5680 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3135378 27-Sep-2023 09:13

tukapa1:

SaltyNZ:

Don't touch a brand new Leaf, it's a terrible EV.

And I agree a new Leaf would be a terrible option with all the other available cars out there. Second hand prices aren't too bad at the moment, however.

If you buy one, either you'll keep driving the terrible car until it dies or you'll be selling the terrible car on a market that's increasingly populated by not-terrible cars. Leaf prices can only fall (pun intended).

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#3135384 27-Sep-2023 09:50

frankv:

If you buy one, either you'll keep driving the terrible car until it dies or you'll be selling the terrible car on a market that's increasingly populated by not-terrible cars. Leaf prices can only fall (pun intended).

Depends if you want to buy a car with purely resale in mind?

FWIW the ZE1 still has a great boot (ignore the scratchy plastics) that will easily swallow a pram AND a portacot, and the post-Feb 2020 cars have a respectable screen (with some USB-C charging) and rear USBs to boot.

Had cheap enough, and used enough, you'll still get your money's worth. Although I would avoid anything without a 6kw charger at this point although that won't matter much if you're mostly using to city-hop and have space inside to charge it.

We've saved roughly half we have lost in depreciation in fuel savings. That's just how technology is. If you want pain, look at what Model 3s are selling for.

HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3135393 27-Sep-2023 10:08

frankv:

tukapa1:

And I agree a new Leaf would be a terrible option with all the other available cars out there. Second hand prices aren't too bad at the moment, however.

If you buy one, either you'll keep driving the terrible car until it dies or you'll be selling the terrible car on a market that's increasingly populated by not-terrible cars. Leaf prices can only fall (pun intended).

Worth keeping in mind that Leafs are currently the only BEV in NZ with V2G/V2H functionality onboard. When TPTB eventually get their sh*t together and provide the hardware (at a reasonable price) and regulatatory landscape sorted Leafs will have a big advantage over other current offerings in the EV space.

We have recently upgraded to a newer Leaf with the old one for sale that has 62%SoH of a 24kWh battery. For someone with the techy knowhow that offers the opportunity of storage capacity greater than that of a Powerwall at about a quarter of the price. If the electricity market trading that is happening in the US using V2G was available here now the economic viability of older Leafs would look very different to what it does here now.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

BlargHonk

147 posts

Master Geek

#3135450 27-Sep-2023 12:17

HarmLessSolutions:

Worth keeping in mind that Leafs are currently the only BEV in NZ with V2G/V2H functionality onboard. When TPTB eventually get their sh*t together and provide the hardware (at a reasonable price) and regulatatory landscape sorted Leafs will have a big advantage over other current offerings in the EV space.

We have recently upgraded to a newer Leaf with the old one for sale that has 62%SoH of a 24kWh battery. For someone with the techy knowhow that offers the opportunity of storage capacity greater than that of a Powerwall at about a quarter of the price. If the electricity market trading that is happening in the US using V2G was available here now the economic viability of older Leafs would look very different to what it does here now.

What is involved with converting a Leaf Battery to providing a Powerwall type solution? I'm guessing there is a fair bit of extra kit that you would need to connected it up and make it safe?

HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3135451 27-Sep-2023 12:21

BlargHonk:

HarmLessSolutions:

Worth keeping in mind that Leafs are currently the only BEV in NZ with V2G/V2H functionality onboard. When TPTB eventually get their sh*t together and provide the hardware (at a reasonable price) and regulatatory landscape sorted Leafs will have a big advantage over other current offerings in the EV space.

We have recently upgraded to a newer Leaf with the old one for sale that has 62%SoH of a 24kWh battery. For someone with the techy knowhow that offers the opportunity of storage capacity greater than that of a Powerwall at about a quarter of the price. If the electricity market trading that is happening in the US using V2G was available here now the economic viability of older Leafs would look very different to what it does here now.

What is involved with converting a Leaf Battery to providing a Powerwall type solution? I'm guessing there is a fair bit of extra kit that you would need to connected it up and make it safe?

There's plenty of DIY videos on YouTube. This guy seems to be one of the better quality posters in this regard.

If V2G was available here it's as easy as hooking up with a Chademo equiped bidirectional charger and you're good to go. The usual 'islanding' requirements would need to be addressed if you want 'blackout' functionality.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

traderstu

332 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3135463 27-Sep-2023 12:58

BlargHonk:

HarmLessSolutions:

Worth keeping in mind that Leafs are currently the only BEV in NZ with V2G/V2H functionality onboard. When TPTB eventually get their sh*t together and provide the hardware (at a reasonable price) and regulatatory landscape sorted Leafs will have a big advantage over other current offerings in the EV space.

We have recently upgraded to a newer Leaf with the old one for sale that has 62%SoH of a 24kWh battery. For someone with the techy knowhow that offers the opportunity of storage capacity greater than that of a Powerwall at about a quarter of the price. If the electricity market trading that is happening in the US using V2G was available here now the economic viability of older Leafs would look very different to what it does here now.

What is involved with converting a Leaf Battery to providing a Powerwall type solution? I'm guessing there is a fair bit of extra kit that you would need to connected it up and make it safe?

I'm keeping a close eye on this space.

We are in a slightly different demographic - retired and living in a smaller rural town. A 2nd hand Leaf parked in the garage primarily acting as a storage battery for our solar is very appealing. Happy to pay the cost of wof's and rego for the convenience of a second car for short hops around town, while reducing battery deg on the main car.

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HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3135468 27-Sep-2023 13:02

traderstu:

BlargHonk:

What is involved with converting a Leaf Battery to providing a Powerwall type solution? I'm guessing there is a fair bit of extra kit that you would need to connected it up and make it safe?

I'm keeping a close eye on this space.

We are in a slightly different demographic - retired and living in a smaller rural town. A 2nd hand Leaf parked in the garage primarily acting as a storage battery for our solar is very appealing. Happy to pay the cost of wof's and rego for the convenience of a second car for short hops around town, while reducing battery deg on the main car.

This video is very enlightening in regard to the possibilities that V2G presents.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#3135544 27-Sep-2023 16:19

GV27:

frankv:

If you buy one, either you'll keep driving the terrible car until it dies or you'll be selling the terrible car on a market that's increasingly populated by not-terrible cars. Leaf prices can only fall (pun intended).

Depends if you want to buy a car with purely resale in mind?

FWIW the ZE1 still has a great boot (ignore the scratchy plastics) that will easily swallow a pram AND a portacot, and the post-Feb 2020 cars have a respectable screen (with some USB-C charging) and rear USBs to boot.

Had cheap enough, and used enough, you'll still get your money's worth. Although I would avoid anything without a 6kw charger at this point although that won't matter much if you're mostly using to city-hop and have space inside to charge it.

We've saved roughly half we have lost in depreciation in fuel savings. That's just how technology is. If you want pain, look at what Model 3s are selling for.

IMO you have to be doing a lot of driving to save money when having an EV especially a more expensive new one. Savings will get worse when RUCs come in. Talking to an new car dealer that sells both EVs and hybrids and also sells second hand cars, he said that he was finding that new EVs were losing a lot more value than hybrids or ICEs when sold second hand at the moment. IMO if you are buying a second hand run about EV where you don't need a big range, and can pick one up cheaply , then an EV may make some financial sense, especially if you have solar generation. But IMO someone in that situation is mainly saving money becuase they are not paying their fair share of tax to use the roads

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#3135546 27-Sep-2023 16:22

frankv:

tukapa1:

And I agree a new Leaf would be a terrible option with all the other available cars out there. Second hand prices aren't too bad at the moment, however.

If you buy one, either you'll keep driving the terrible car until it dies or you'll be selling the terrible car on a market that's increasingly populated by not-terrible cars. Leaf prices can only fall (pun intended).

The thing is that BEVs will only improve the longer you wait, and shoudl drop in price. Whereas Hybrids and ICEs are pretty much as good as they will get minus some tech improvements. The current BEV offerings aren't compelling IMO. The best EVs are way to much to be considered affordable.

KrazyKid

1238 posts

Uber Geek

#3135550 27-Sep-2023 16:29

My numbers say my old Nissan Leaf is a free car. Savings cover depreciation.

But it looks like buying a new $47,000 MG4 the savings with the clean car rebate and an interest free loan from Westpac are still good, but not as amazing as a Leaf.

I reckon after 3 years the money spent on an MG4 is the same as if I brought a $25,000 3 year old petrol car.

This is on about 10,000 km diving per year. More km driven more savings

johno1234

2808 posts

Uber Geek

#3135567 27-Sep-2023 17:21

Interestingly a near new 2023 Leaf seems to be about the same price as a near new Model3. I'd much prefer the latter.

shk292

2857 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3135608 27-Sep-2023 19:06

KrazyKid: My numbers say my old Nissan Leaf is a free car. Savings cover depreciation.

But it looks like buying a new $47,000 MG4 the savings with the clean car rebate and an interest free loan from Westpac are still good, but not as amazing as a Leaf.

I reckon after 3 years the money spent on an MG4 is the same as if I brought a $25,000 3 year old petrol car.

This is on about 10,000 km diving per year. More km driven more savings

I's love to see your numbers on that because very time I do a spreadsheet it says BEV doesn't add up (purely from financial view, not environmental). And that's without 7c/km road tax

10000 km is about $3k of petrol per year, and you're paying $22k up front to save that

HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3135643 27-Sep-2023 21:19

We were early adopters so paid top dollar for our 2012 24kWh Leaf back in July 2014. $27K back then and after 85K km of driving we've selling off the old girl for hopefully $5,500-6,000, so ~$21 less over 9 years. A couple of sets of tyres but little other expense in that time so well ahead of an ICE for the same period. Most of our charging over 9 years has been from PV so charging costs have been very low and have contributed to our PV's ROI.

Upgraded to a 2016 30kWh Leaf to better accommodate our rural commute and in readiness for V2G, which will also improve the Leaf's viability. The Leaf is our short distance car now as we also have a Polestar2.

So far as RUCs are concerned the situation on what changes in the system come next April are far from clear but an extra 7c/km is far from a deal breaker on either of our EVs.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

everettpsycho

614 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3135658 27-Sep-2023 22:15

shk292:
KrazyKid: My numbers say my old Nissan Leaf is a free car. Savings cover depreciation.

But it looks like buying a new $47,000 MG4 the savings with the clean car rebate and an interest free loan from Westpac are still good, but not as amazing as a Leaf.

I reckon after 3 years the money spent on an MG4 is the same as if I brought a $25,000 3 year old petrol car.

This is on about 10,000 km diving per year. More km driven more savings

I's love to see your numbers on that because very time I do a spreadsheet it says BEV doesn't add up (purely from financial view, not environmental). And that's without 7c/km road tax

10000 km is about $3k of petrol per year, and you're paying $22k up front to save that

Not sure on the full maths, but remember there's $7k off that price in rebates bringing it down to $40k immediately. Then if you're paying 0%-1% interest you can stick that $7k and any cash you might have available for putting towards the vehicle or selling your current car either against a mortgage or in term deposit too. So best case scenario if you're on floating rate is that $7k will save you over $500 a year in mortgage interest or make you money if invested. If you were to sell your current car for say another $7k over 3 years you would have spent $15k more and made up $12k of that in not paying mortgage interest and petrol savings.

The really hard sell numbers wise for these though is all the savings are in going electric, you'd see similar savings buy a $5000 leaf if the rs ge suited you. Ultimately this is why we steered away from it. $20k more was a lot of money for little additional savings over the older leaf. Against petrol though the leaf cost similar and has only saved us money.

When we ran the numbers to upgrade our 30kWh to a 40kWh leaf I worked out we could probably make up $6000 of the difference over 3 years in not paying mortgage interest if we put the sale money and the $3500 rebate against the mortgage to leverage the 1% borrowing. Ultimately we didn't do it as our current leaf has depreciated more than we thought it had meaning we wouldn't actually hit that $6000 saving and the cash needed would have been higher than we wanted to spend at the moment.

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