EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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8953 posts

Uber Geek

#3143293 5-Oct-2023 19:41

gzt: ]Scottish Sun: "I'm still a bit I'm still shaken up, to be honest. I'm all for an electric car but I didn't expect that.

Calling Brian Brain twice in that article moves it firmly to this thread.

everettpsycho

614 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3143373 5-Oct-2023 22:08

PolicyGuy:
everettpsycho: We have a new cheapest ev, gwm just knocked $5k off the ora bringing it down to $42990 before rebates, so $35,975+orc after rebate.
Weird looking thing but definitely down in to the realms of affordable now.

(emphasis added)

Different folks have different ideas about what affordable means.

You obviously think that $36k is affordable, but it would be close to twice as much as I've ever paid for a car, and I've owned about a dozen over the years.

Google says the median price for a second hand car on TradeMe in 2022 was about $14k, so let's guess at $16k this year.
That's the sort of money most people pay, so I guess that makes it affordable

$36k affordable? yeah ... nah

Realms of affordable isn't the same as cheap. I've never spent that much in a car either but with the rebates, petrol savings and low interest borrowing you'd close the gap down even further and be buying a brand new vehicle over a used one. I did the maths and selling our leaf, borrowing against this car and putting the $7k and leaf sale money offset against a mortgage it would cost us $19k to change vehicles to a brand new one with significantly improved range, and that's without saving any money in petrol.

I'm definitely not suggesting that $35k is a value everyone can go out and buy, but how many corollas are on the road and it's in line with their pricing. This dip with the reasonable range paired with the mg4 and byd dolphin (that I expect will see a price drop to compete now) means more affordable EVs enter the market, driving down the prices of second hand ones and in a few years time means we'll have even more used ones up for grabs. A year ago a used 40kWh leaf costs what this thing does brand new today, so they are also plummeting in price to compensate and definitely tracking towards sub $20k soon, paired with their current rebate,1% loan and petrol savings I'd definitely recommend anyone after a new $15k consider finding the little extra from the bank so that is an option as they'd make back a chunk of money in not buying petrol. RUC will limit that saving but who knows when that's coming in.

tukapa1

725 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3143396 6-Oct-2023 07:17

We've been approved up to $50k interest free for 5 years with Westpac for an electric car. Initially was going to spend right up to that amount and was looking at the MG4.

But have now decided instead to get a 2018-19 40kw Leaf. Can get these with SOH between 85 and 88 for a touch below $20k.

We were only really wanting a hatch. With the Leaf the back seat room is good and boot space is really good. We've looked at other options but kept coming back to the Leaf for the roominess of it

Our daily use is a 35km return commute, mainly highway speeds, plus the added bit of running around some days for after school activities. I looked at the 62kw version but for the extra money (15k) thought we could live without the extra range.

I'd rather put the other $30k we're not using on a car on the mortgage offer the next 5 years.

Half of the payments on the interest free loan will be paid for by savings in fuel (two 20 years old Toyota's being run at the moment).

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#3143513 6-Oct-2023 10:17

tukapa1: We've been approved up to $50k interest free for 5 years with Westpac for an electric car. Initially was going to spend right up to that amount and was looking at the MG4.

.....

Half of the payments on the interest free loan will be paid for by savings in fuel (two 20 years old Toyota's being run at the moment).

Make sure you include RUC in your calculations, It is coming...

Based on what you've said about mileage, it'll probably be $800-$900 a year....

tukapa1

725 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3143521 6-Oct-2023 10:37

wellygary:

Make sure you include RUC in your calculations, It is coming...

Based on what you've said about mileage, it'll probably be $800-$900 a year....

I've allowed for RUC at the current price, working on 16,000 km a year ($100 a month).

So we could save around $300 month until RUC kicks in then $200 month after that. By my rough maths that's $12,600 over 5 years.

Of course there's the charging cost at home, and with our current provider we're on a flat rate (27.485c/kWh) so it's not as cheap as it could be. I've worked that out at about $65 month = $3900.

So I reckon over the 5 years conservatively we would save $9k with the move to a Leaf. Of course once we are off our current power provider contract I will look for a better plan which will give more savings.

I'm looking at an 88% SOH 40kWh Leaf (Nismo cos I think they look better), so hopefully that will still be going strong with enough range for us in 5 years. The data available so far shows as long as you don't overheat the battery in these they don't seem to drop away as much as the earlier Leafs.

Happy to have some holes pointed out in my workings!

Cheers.

alasta

6701 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

#3143526 6-Oct-2023 10:49

I just did some rough maths with RUC included based on the use of public chargers, bearing in mind that I can't charge at home. My conclusion is that a Hyundai Kona Electric would break even with my petrol Mazda CX-30 at a fuel price of about $2.50 per litre. As most people will be aware, petrol is currently just under $3 a litre.

So, electric would be cheaper, but nowhere near enough to justify the extra capex.

SaltyNZ

8218 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3143529 6-Oct-2023 11:01

alasta:

As most people will be aware, petrol is currently just under $3 a litre.

If I still had a petrol car, I'd be interested to know where you're getting petrol under $3/L.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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jonathan18

7413 posts

Uber Geek

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#3143533 6-Oct-2023 11:11

alasta:

So, electric would be cheaper, but nowhere near enough to justify the extra capex.

Life would be so boring - and initial uptake of new technology like EVs negligible - if every decision and purchase came down to an economic analysis.

I get that the total cost of purchasing and running a car can and needs to be an important part of the decision for many, but equally I also know many EV owners - including myself - for which this is secondary or, at least, sits alongside many other factors.

SaltyNZ

8218 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3143547 6-Oct-2023 11:17

Oh yes, I mean, I drove a 1.3L automatic Suzuki Swift for 10 years for the economics. And a little bit of me died inside every time I turned the key.

The Model 3 is the most fun I've had driving a car since either the 200SX or the Impreza ... it's probably closer to the 200SX than the Impreza as they are both RWD. Trading the turbo kick for instant torque at 0 RPM is a no-brainer. I will admit to sometimes missing the manual transmission, and traction control can make some corners less exciting than they should be. But manuals are falling out of favour even in the ICE world, and you won't find a new car today without traction control.

EVs are just better all round. They're faster off the line, they don't stink, the "tank" is full every morning - at least if you can charge at home, and I acknowledge some people currently cannot - and all this comes with a much lower environmental cost. The fact that they're also cheaper is just icing on the cake.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

tukapa1

725 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3143551 6-Oct-2023 11:31

SaltyNZ:
alasta:

As most people will be aware, petrol is currently just under $3 a litre.

If I still had a petrol car, I'd be interested to know where you're getting petrol under $3/L.

I have 6 options around me (New Plymouth) under $3 for 91, with the cheapest bring New World at $2.76.7. Can get another 6c off that as well with a receipt from the store.

BlargHonk

147 posts

Master Geek

#3143594 6-Oct-2023 13:04

SaltyNZ:

alasta:

As most people will be aware, petrol is currently just under $3 a litre.

If I still had a petrol car, I'd be interested to know where you're getting petrol under $3/L.

It's under $3L in most of CHCH still. You can get under $2.90 if you hunt around

PolicyGuy

1726 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3143665 6-Oct-2023 16:47

SaltyNZ:

alasta:

As most people will be aware, petrol is currently just under $3 a litre.

If I still had a petrol car, I'd be interested to know where you're getting petrol under $3/L.

Whanganui

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3143668 6-Oct-2023 17:18

Relevant to this discussion we travelled from New Plymouth to Wellington return (plus a bit of urban in WLG) a couple of weeks back in our Polestar2. Say 750kms all up with 100% SoC on departure and about 30% on return. Total charging (using ChargeNet) cost enroute was 90kWh for $70 which probably equates to ~150kWh for $120 if all distance was at public charging rates.

That's 16c/km which is about what I would have expected at ChargeNet's rates. For the same distance using our (lost) solar export value (at 17c/kWh) of that 150kWh the charging would have cost ~$26.

The cost to fuel a petrol ICE for 750km with 8L/100km @ $3.00/L = $180

Conclusion is that home charging is key to the viability of owning an EV, particularly as RUCs loom on the horizon. Rising petrol prices will increase EVs' advantage overall but even if a relatively 'normal' home electricity tariff is used (rather than solar FET) being able to charge at home, or at work, absolutely trumps running an ICE financially to the tune of 20c/km before reduced maintenance savings are considered.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

mudguard

2113 posts

Uber Geek

#3143689 6-Oct-2023 18:41

HarmLessSolutions:

Conclusion is that home charging is key to the viability of owning an EV, particularly as RUCs loom on the horizon. Rising petrol prices will increase EVs' advantage overall but even if a relatively 'normal' home electricity tariff is used (rather than solar FET) being able to charge at home, or at work, absolutely trumps running an ICE financially to the tune of 20c/km before reduced maintenance savings are considered.

I looked up my Corolla to see what cost per km last year. 26c per km. So it seems the electrics are beating it.

boosacnoodle

963 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3143700 6-Oct-2023 19:39

SaltyNZ: If I still had a petrol car, I'd be interested to know where you're getting petrol under $3/L.

Gull has regular sales. Must be one on today as 95 is $2.88 and 91 is $2.74.

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