Road surfaces: do they contribute to our high accident rate?

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#2846335 10-Jan-2022 18:03

SheriffNZ:
Fine. Nothing stoping them governing cars to 100km/hr though.

I feel as if that would cause accidents in itself. (Nothing scientific here mind you, and happy to be proven wrong).

Right now, outside of the commercial realm , there are very few private vehicles that are governed at the speed limit. Sure, there are some that physically can't exceed it by much (I'm thinking of my old 2.8L hilux that might have exceeded 100 on a downhill with a tailwind on a cold morning) but otherwise the majority of the fleet is capable of the limit - yet plenty of people drive on the open road well below it, holding others up.

Trying to pass another vehicle that's doing 90, when you can only do 100, means more time spent on the wrong side of the road.

You've also got roads in the Waikato (and here's hoping Transmission Gully!) where the limit is 110. How would your 100 limit work there? Or is the limiter set to 120 for all imports?

I had a Swift that the cruise control was limited to an indicated 105 - it wouldn't allow you to set it to a faster speed. Turns out, that was an actual speed of 97, which meant if I had it set on the open road I was often at the head of a queue. Even more frustrating when I went on the expressway....

mattwnz

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#2846362 10-Jan-2022 18:34

It appears that the roading authorities are reducing the speed limits on roads around NZ, including SH2 in the Wairarapa. So many parts are dropping from 100 to 80km/h. IMO this is so backwards, and I am not sure the public is in agreement with this either even though it has gone to consultation. Cars are getting safer and new cars are a lot faster and powerful than older one, and new EVs even more so. IMO we haven't built the roading infrastructure to keep up with the population growth due to immigration. But that also applies to many things like housing etc. Also noticed the SH2 between Wellington and the Wairarapa is not in a great state, pot holes and road wear and tear, and much is just tar and chip, so when they do reseal it, often it results in windscreen and paint chips. .

Technofreak

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#2846495 10-Jan-2022 22:43

mattwnz:

It appears that the roading authorities are reducing the speed limits on roads around NZ, including SH2 in the Wairarapa. So many parts are dropping from 100 to 80km/h. IMO this is so backwards, and I am not sure the public is in agreement with this either even though it has gone to consultation. Cars are getting safer and new cars are a lot faster and powerful than older one, and new EVs even more so. IMO we haven't built the roading infrastructure to keep up with the population growth due to immigration. But that also applies to many things like housing etc. Also noticed the SH2 between Wellington and the Wairarapa is not in a great state, pot holes and road wear and tear, and much is just tar and chip, so when they do reseal it, often it results in windscreen and paint chips. .

This in spades

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mudguard

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#2846523 11-Jan-2022 07:17

I almost drive for a living. To be honest the drop from 100kmh to 80kmh doesn't bother me that much. One example is the Nelson to Blenheim route. Sure I only do it once a month but it doesn't seem that big deal as your average speed is quite low.
The only thing that drives me nuts is mixed speeds. IE some towns are 50, some are 60. The Hawkes Bay seems to be specialize in this. My car displays the last speed sign but I don't want to rely on it 100%.

Geektastic

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#2846563 11-Jan-2022 09:18

We experienced a surface related incident.

Going down the road from Wanaka to Haast on the Spyder. I braked to slow from 80 to 55 for a corner.

Under braking the front wheels dropped into a well hidden surface imperfection several inches deep. This caused the ABS and VSS to have kittens. My wife ended up leaning on my back which didn't help with steering and braking either!

It would have been worse on two wheels I think.

That road was pretty sketchy riding over the whole length to be honest.

MikeAqua

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#2846712 11-Jan-2022 13:22

mudguard: I almost drive for a living. To be honest the drop from 100kmh to 80kmh doesn't bother me that much. One example is the Nelson to Blenheim route. Sure I only do it once a month but it doesn't seem that big deal as your average speed is quite low.
The only thing that drives me nuts is mixed speeds. IE some towns are 50, some are 60. The Hawkes Bay seems to be specialize in this. My car displays the last speed sign but I don't want to rely on it 100%.

On a good day, the new speed limits have only added about 10 minutes to the trip. On a not so good day ... it takes 30 minutes longer than it used to. In early December it took me 2 hours to get from Blenheim to Hira for no apparent reason.

I drive this road a lot. I now allow two hours for a trip between Blenheim and Nelson. One and a half hours used to be a safe bet.

Mike

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#2846823 11-Jan-2022 17:47

I've noticed a lot of the 80 limits. Zero evidence of enforcement or compliance either really.

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Technofreak

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#2846868 11-Jan-2022 20:17

MikeAqua:

mudguard: I almost drive for a living. To be honest the drop from 100kmh to 80kmh doesn't bother me that much. One example is the Nelson to Blenheim route. Sure I only do it once a month but it doesn't seem that big deal as your average speed is quite low.
The only thing that drives me nuts is mixed speeds. IE some towns are 50, some are 60. The Hawkes Bay seems to be specialize in this. My car displays the last speed sign but I don't want to rely on it 100%.

On a good day, the new speed limits have only added about 10 minutes to the trip. On a not so good day ... it takes 30 minutes longer than it used to. In early December it took me 2 hours to get from Blenheim to Hira for no apparent reason.

I drive this road a lot. I now allow two hours for a trip between Blenheim and Nelson. One and a half hours used to be a safe bet.

We seem to be legislating for idiot or incompetent drivers.

In reality there should be an open road (100 kph) limit for all roads outside of built areas except for roads like the Waikato Expressway with their higher limits. Areas with a high gate way count and with higher levels of residential activity (pedestrians, cyclists, driveways, young children etc) have scaled lower limits depending or the amount of activity. Having a lower speed limit just because the road is a bit windy is just silly. Can't drivers drive to the conditions and their ability and adjust their speed accordingly?

I'm amazed at the evidence of the number of off road excursions you see. Demolished road side fences and road side wire rope barriers and so on. There never used to be the the amount of excursions that there is these days. Is it drivers or is it partly some of the cheap tyres that are on the market? Even so drivers should be able to adjust to the conditions.

Lowering the speed limit like has been happening in a lot of places just frustrates competent drivers.

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Geektastic

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#2846930 12-Jan-2022 07:30

Observational data suggests competent drivers are a minority!

I think it's well past due that a compulsory period of professional lessons was introduced and probably compulsory insurance as well.

Modernising rego and wof compliance using a system of NPR cameras and adding an actual emissions test to the wof measured with instruments too, for that matter.

jlittle

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#2846937 12-Jan-2022 08:25

Geektastic: I've noticed a lot of the 80 limits. Zero evidence of enforcement or compliance either really.

It will come, if the experience of the 80 km/h areas in Northland (some decades old now) are a guide. It seems they have a grace period before policing them strictly.

CruciasNZ

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#2847946 12-Jan-2022 10:08

We don't have enough speed cameras or police to enforce the speed limit, so the little that the police do is like throwing a water bottle on a forest fire. There were rumor's floating around early last year about installing journey time cameras all over the country like they have in the Waterview Tunnel, though I can't find a source so take with copious amounts of salt grains. These cameras record your license plate at each camera you pass and report back to a database in the cloud where your average speed is computed from point A to B, if it's above the speed limit you get a ticket. Works best on stretches of road where there's little deviation from a set route, so most of our mountain passes, gorges, rural highway etc. because you don't need a lot of cameras. Nothing stopping them putting up cameras every KM, the system would still work, but it would be cost prohibitive.

Technically they could also ticket you for going too slow, but they wouldn't be able to prove you hadn't parked or pulled off for a moment. Shame, ticketing slow drivers would also have a massive impact on the road toll as there'd be less frustration overtaking and then "making up time"

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BlueShift

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#2848134 12-Jan-2022 13:29

MikeAqua:

SheriffNZ:

I know electric bikes are governed in some countries (maybe here in NZ). I've never understood why cars can't be subject to the same requirements (I appreciate though there is limited (or no) political will for this solution).

I'm sure car speed could be governed electronically. The down side is that if a person makes a mistake and needs a burst of speed to get themselves out of trouble, they don't have it.

Not sure how often a 180km/h burst of speed is necessary for avoiding trouble. Max limit of 120 should be pretty sufficient for the vast majority of times a boost is needed, and still 10km/h over the fastest legal limits in the land.

BlueShift

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#2848187 12-Jan-2022 13:39

Technofreak:

We seem to be legislating for idiot or incompetent drivers.

In reality there should be an open road (100 kph) limit for all roads outside of built areas except for roads like the Waikato Expressway with their higher limits. Areas with a high gate way count and with higher levels of residential activity (pedestrians, cyclists, driveways, young children etc) have scaled lower limits depending or the amount of activity. Having a lower speed limit just because the road is a bit windy is just silly. Can't drivers drive to the conditions and their ability and adjust their speed accordingly?

I'm amazed at the evidence of the number of off road excursions you see. Demolished road side fences and road side wire rope barriers and so on. There never used to be the the amount of excursions that there is these days. Is it drivers or is it partly some of the cheap tyres that are on the market? Even so drivers should be able to adjust to the conditions.

Lowering the speed limit like has been happening in a lot of places just frustrates competent drivers.

Anecdotally, I think there's no more "excursions" than there used to be, but there are more roadside barriers to show where one has occurred.

At least a mangled wire barrier shows a vehicle most likely didn't end up in a ditch or wrapped round a tree.

RobDickinson

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#2848188 12-Jan-2022 13:39

Interesting post on NZ's road surfaces from Richard Lauder...

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6886428163371610112/

(LL Interlude 2) - I need to tell you about roads. New Zealand roads. Otherwise the story of my second career step, supplying specialist materials to the roading industry, will be confusing to many readers.

New Zealand has one of the longest roading networks per capita of any country in the world. We have a big land mass and small population, and we don't have a big desert covering most of it like Australia. So we need roads to reach everywhere in the country, and we have almost 100,000km in the network, 65,000km of which is sealed.

In the 90's NZ was recognised as the world's leading builder of low-cost roads. Our design systems were sought after by many countries in the developing world, who also wanted cheap and effective roads.

Most of the rich world has built its core roading infrastructure in concrete and deep lift asphalt - heavy structural pavement layers 200-300mm thick. Durable but very expensive. In NZ we have built most of our roads (except motorways and heavy arterials) by putting down an unbound (no binder or glue or cement) layer of carefully crushed rock (graded to achieve high density and low void space) and covered this with a thin layer of uniformly sized crushed rock bound together with bitumen. The bitumen keeps water out of the base below, while the rocks poke above the seal, providing friction for your car tyres, and a gap for surface water to prevent aquaplaning in the rain (as do the grooves on your tyres). The system is called chip seal, and its cheap. And when the seal needs maintenance, you simply put another one on top - a reseal.

Bitumen comes from crude oil, and is the thick highly viscous stuff from the bottom of the distillation column, after the more volatile petrol and kerosene and the like are taken off the top.

It actually remains a liquid on the road, but a very very thick liquid. It does get brittle at very low temperatures and crack, and will flow more freely on super hot days - the days that roads bleed or melt.

Bitumen was once a byproduct at oil refineries but is now designed. Its characteristics can be changed at the refinery, or by addition of additives - something I was involved in at Technic Industries, and something I will tell you more of in subsequent posts. So that's NZ roads in context.

Technofreak

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#2849389 12-Jan-2022 16:43

BlueShift:

Technofreak:

We seem to be legislating for idiot or incompetent drivers.

In reality there should be an open road (100 kph) limit for all roads outside of built areas except for roads like the Waikato Expressway with their higher limits. Areas with a high gate way count and with higher levels of residential activity (pedestrians, cyclists, driveways, young children etc) have scaled lower limits depending or the amount of activity. Having a lower speed limit just because the road is a bit windy is just silly. Can't drivers drive to the conditions and their ability and adjust their speed accordingly?

I'm amazed at the evidence of the number of off road excursions you see. Demolished road side fences and road side wire rope barriers and so on. There never used to be the the amount of excursions that there is these days. Is it drivers or is it partly some of the cheap tyres that are on the market? Even so drivers should be able to adjust to the conditions.

Lowering the speed limit like has been happening in a lot of places just frustrates competent drivers.

Anecdotally, I think there's no more "excursions" than there used to be, but there are more roadside barriers to show where one has occurred.

At least a mangled wire barrier shows a vehicle most likely didn't end up in a ditch or wrapped round a tree.

Yes there are more roadside barriers but the amount of "boundary fence carnage" I see whenever I drive across the Kaimais and similar places has certainly increased. These fences have always been there.

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