Road surfaces: do they contribute to our high accident rate?

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7785 posts

Uber Geek

#2849660 13-Jan-2022 09:23

BlueShift:

Not sure how often a 180km/h burst of speed is necessary for avoiding trouble. Max limit of 120 should be pretty sufficient for the vast majority of times a boost is needed, and still 10km/h over the fastest legal limits in the land.

180 would be excessive (and unobtainable at short notice for most vehicles).

120 - 130 burst speed to get out of trouble would be sensible.

Mike

Technofreak

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#2850272 13-Jan-2022 18:04

Legislating for idiots or to cut roading costs, perhaps both. Coming to your area soon?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/459512/roading-leaders-challenge-potential-new-80km-h-state-highway-speed-limit

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geoffwnz

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#2850403 14-Jan-2022 08:49

MikeAqua:

BlueShift:

Not sure how often a 180km/h burst of speed is necessary for avoiding trouble. Max limit of 120 should be pretty sufficient for the vast majority of times a boost is needed, and still 10km/h over the fastest legal limits in the land.

180 would be excessive (and unobtainable at short notice for most vehicles).

120 - 130 burst speed to get out of trouble would be sensible.

Can confirm that it takes a while to "burst" up to 180kmh. Tested in WRX rally car on a 1km straight section of a stage at Rally Whangarei.

In other news, applying a burst of speed generally gets you into trouble faster rather than avoiding it. You can scrub off speed far faster than you can apply it. The best way in most cases to get out of trouble is by reducing speed and backing out of the situation.
That overtaking gap just got smaller? Pop back in behind and wait for the next gap. Because that "muppet" that you recently had on your side of the road coming towards you while "late passing" someone and scaring you due to how close they came to a head on with you, is exactly how an oncoming driver would view you.

We humans, on the whole, seem to be quite bad at mental physics calculations to do with speed and distance when there are two or more moving objects to factor in.

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MikeAqua

7785 posts

Uber Geek

#2850479 14-Jan-2022 09:42

geoffwnz:

In other news, applying a burst of speed generally gets you into trouble faster rather than avoiding it. You can scrub off speed far faster than you can apply it. The best way in most cases to get out of trouble is by reducing speed and backing out of the situation.

That overtaking gap just got smaller? Pop back in behind and wait for the next gap. Because that "muppet" that you recently had on your side of the road coming towards you while "late passing" someone and scaring you due to how close they came to a head on with you, is exactly how an oncoming driver would view you.

We humans, on the whole, seem to be quite bad at mental physics calculations to do with speed and distance when there are two or more moving objects to factor in.

It's situation dependent and I'd rather have two options than one.

Mike

mudguard

2119 posts

Uber Geek

#2850547 14-Jan-2022 10:27

The thing is, if 100kmh was a fixed limit for all cars almost no one would buy anything over about two litres. I drive around Northland, Kawakawa to Paihia is fine at 80kmh. The other way in is already 80kmh. I do wonder all those with six litre V8s or something like having cheeky little blats up to 200kmh on back roads.

I don't know the maths, but if you can see how much more energy your braking system needs when aborting a pass vs a stop from steady pace. I've stopped from nearly 200kmh a few times on the old Pukekohe layout, it requires a pretty good press on the whoa pedal!

Ge0rge

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#2850579 14-Jan-2022 11:01

mudguard:

The thing is, if 100kmh was a fixed limit for all cars almost no one would buy anything over about two litres. I drive around Northland, Kawakawa to Paihia is fine at 80kmh. The other way in is already 80kmh. I do wonder all those with six litre V8s or something like having cheeky little blats up to 200kmh on back roads.

Except for anyone who ever wanted to tow something at 90km/h consistently. A 4.5L Land Cruiser V8 probably wont do much more than 150km/h at a guess, but it will do 100km/h all day, every day, be it empty or towing 3.5t. I would suggest that plenty of people don't buy displacement because they want to go fast.

Besides, only milk and juice come in 2L.

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2850581 14-Jan-2022 11:05

People have litres still?

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Ge0rge

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#2850585 14-Jan-2022 11:14

Yes - unfortunately your messiah hasn't created solutions for those people who grow the food on your table, transport the food to your table, or indeed those who produce the products your table was made from.

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2850589 14-Jan-2022 11:18

idk I showed a farmer round my ev once he seemed quite keen. Though he is one of the 10 richest people in nz...

Shame there isnt any cheap used evs around or even some subsidies...

cshwone

1070 posts

Uber Geek

#2850639 14-Jan-2022 11:25

Technofreak:

Legislating for idiots or to cut roading costs, perhaps both. Coming to your area soon?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/459512/roading-leaders-challenge-potential-new-80km-h-state-highway-speed-limit

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/projects/sh2-wairarapa-highway-improvements/speed-review/

Already happening

MikeB4

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#2850641 14-Jan-2022 11:28

The issue with raising speed limits is and using current examples in the minds of a large number of drivers 50k/ph = 60k/ph and 100k/ph = 110k/ph. So an increase to say 110 or 120 would mean 120 or 130. Except for some expressways the vast majority of the rural roads in Aotearoa are barely suitable for 80k/ph.

Ge0rge

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#2850653 14-Jan-2022 11:50

RobDickinson:

idk I showed a farmer round my ev once he seemed quite keen. Though he is one of the 10 richest people in nz...

Shame there isnt any cheap used evs around or even some subsidies...

Continued here, because we're off the reservation here.

MikeAqua

7785 posts

Uber Geek

#2850902 14-Jan-2022 16:04

mudguard:

The thing is, if 100kmh was a fixed limit for all cars almost no one would buy anything over about two litres. I drive around Northland, Kawakawa to Paihia is fine at 80kmh. The other way in is already 80kmh. I do wonder all those with six litre V8s or something like having cheeky little blats up to 200kmh on back roads.

For me power of vehicle is not about speed, it's about acceleration. I encounter a lot of vehicles driving well below the posted speed limit on the routes I regularly drive. A vehicle that can accelerate quickly from a rolling start is useful for that. I don't drive fast on the road. I did when I was in my 20s. These days I find it too scary.

I love driving fast cars on the track though. Last time I was in Vegas I drove a GTR for 20 laps. I couldn't stop grinning for hours. A mate of mine has a 911 and a 996, which I've done some track time in. Prefer the GTR.

Mike

Technofreak

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#2851098 15-Jan-2022 11:04

MikeB4:

The issue with raising speed limits is and using current examples in the minds of a large number of drivers 50k/ph = 60k/ph and 100k/ph = 110k/ph. So an increase to say 110 or 120 would mean 120 or 130. Except for some expressways the vast majority of the rural roads in Aotearoa are barely suitable for 80k/ph.

No one is saying we should increase the speed limit, rather, that decreasing it isn't the correct solution to many of our roading problems.

I don't know what your definition of a rural road is but in my experience a good deal of then are most definitely suitable for a 100 kph limit. Sure there's stretches that require lower speeds but any driver should be able to work that out without having to have a lower limit defined for those sections of road.

One piece of road that has lower limits of recent times is the Karangahake Gorge. Sure there's spots where there is no way you can drive at 100 kph but equally there are places where speeds above the new limit are safe and practical in the right conditions. It would seem the new limits have been put in place because too many people cannot drive adequately and adjust their speed to the conditions.

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SheriffNZ

671 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2851186 15-Jan-2022 17:38

Technofreak:
MikeB4:

The issue with raising speed limits is and using current examples in the minds of a large number of drivers 50k/ph = 60k/ph and 100k/ph = 110k/ph. So an increase to say 110 or 120 would mean 120 or 130. Except for some expressways the vast majority of the rural roads in Aotearoa are barely suitable for 80k/ph.

No one is saying we should increase the speed limit, rather, that decreasing it isn't the correct solution to many of our roading problems.

I don't know what your definition of a rural road is but in my experience a good deal of then are most definitely suitable for a 100 kph limit. Sure there's stretches that require lower speeds but any driver should be able to work that out without having to have a lower limit defined for those sections of road.

One piece of road that has lower limits of recent times is the Karangahake Gorge. Sure there's spots where there is no way you can drive at 100 kph but equally there are places where speeds above the new limit are safe and practical in the right conditions. It would seem the new limits have been put in place because too many people cannot drive adequately and adjust their speed to the conditions.

I’m not sure the final two sentences of your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are compatible. On one hand, you say people should be able to work out that they should drive slower, and then you say people can’t work it out? Perhaps that’s why we need new limits?

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