EU to require tracking devices on cars by 2018

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EU to require tracking devices on cars by 2018

Geektastic

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#171724 29-Apr-2015 09:50

Found this story in the Daily Telegraph this morning.

The EU has passed regulations requiring all new cars to be fitted with black boxes by 2018. It purports to cut emergency service response time by between 50% and 60% as it will automatically contact the services in the event of an accident.

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#1293344 29-Apr-2015 09:59

Sure, this is for A&E only!!!

And, how will the car communicate? Via cellular networks? Satellite? Does this mean every car needs to pay for a wireless subscription?

And, will the authorities use this to breach peoples privacy?

Just don't see how people would agree to this.

sbiddle

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#1293377 29-Apr-2015 10:33

Black boxes, and roadside assist services for calling emergency services have been the norm on most US cars for the last few years. It seems the EU is just catching up.

MikeB4

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#1293378 29-Apr-2015 10:35

This is a good idea

scuwp

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#1293380 29-Apr-2015 10:41

surfisup1000: Sure, this is for A&E only!!!

And, how will the car communicate? Via cellular networks? Satellite? Does this mean every car needs to pay for a wireless subscription?

And, will the authorities use this to breach peoples privacy?

Just don't see how people would agree to this.

Emergency response times are proven critical for survivability, the faster you can get medical attention, the more chances you have of being able to continue to pay taxes :-)

Yes this will be a hard sell on the privacy front, and note the 10 year phase in period. That said most modern cars already collect and store a lot of information, and this is available to insurers, police etc if something happens.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

SumnerBoy

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#1293381 29-Apr-2015 10:43

Perfect use-case for MQTT...

frankv

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#1293386 29-Apr-2015 10:45

surfisup1000: Sure, this is for A&E only!!!

And, how will the car communicate? Via cellular networks? Satellite? Does this mean every car needs to pay for a wireless subscription?

And, will the authorities use this to breach peoples privacy?

Just don't see how people would agree to this.

Yes, to be automatically triggered if there's an accident, or can be manually triggered to. Communicates via cellular, I think. No, a car wouldn't need a subscription... it can only call the emergency number.

Will the authorities breach people's privacy? My guess is that the legal definition of 'privacy' will be subtly altered so that the authorities behave legally. The never-fail "safety" argument will be used to justify the changes.

According to the article, this is already available in some BMWs, Volvos, and Citroens. I wonder how many of those owners have opted into this?

Mind you, labeling this as a "tracking device" is misleading. The device doesn't track you. Rather, when you crash (or you hit the button, or the Police/DGSE/CIA/NSA/Illuminati hit a button commanding it to do so) it will figure out where you are and transmit that information. I'm curious how it will figure out where you are though... GPS? Triangulation of cellular signals?

I do wonder about how many false alarms there will be. That seems to be a problem with the equivalent aircraft ELTs. That and the fact that in a crash the ELT and/or its antenna usually gets destroyed so that it can't transmit.

Geektastic

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#1293409 29-Apr-2015 11:05

There's also a link in the article to another which suggests that cars without the boxes will be forced off the road by untenable insurance premiums (because additional info such as speed, brake force and so on is collected for accident analysis) within 10 years.

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Geektastic

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#1293410 29-Apr-2015 11:06

surfisup1000: Sure, this is for A&E only!!!

And, how will the car communicate? Via cellular networks? Satellite? Does this mean every car needs to pay for a wireless subscription?

And, will the authorities use this to breach peoples privacy?

Just don't see how people would agree to this.

I love the way you think people have to agree with it! Cute.

surfisup1000

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#1293416 29-Apr-2015 11:09

frankv:
surfisup1000: Sure, this is for A&E only!!!

And, how will the car communicate? Via cellular networks? Satellite? Does this mean every car needs to pay for a wireless subscription?

And, will the authorities use this to breach peoples privacy?

Just don't see how people would agree to this.

Yes, to be automatically triggered if there's an accident, or can be manually triggered to. Communicates via cellular, I think. No, a car wouldn't need a subscription... it can only call the emergency number.

Will the authorities breach people's privacy? My guess is that the legal definition of 'privacy' will be subtly altered so that the authorities behave legally. The never-fail "safety" argument will be used to justify the changes.

According to the article, this is already available in some BMWs, Volvos, and Citroens. I wonder how many of those owners have opted into this?

Mind you, labeling this as a "tracking device" is misleading. The device doesn't track you. Rather, when you crash (or you hit the button, or the Police/DGSE/CIA/NSA/Illuminati hit a button commanding it to do so) it will figure out where you are and transmit that information. I'm curious how it will figure out where you are though... GPS? Triangulation of cellular signals?

I do wonder about how many false alarms there will be. That seems to be a problem with the equivalent aircraft ELTs. That and the fact that in a crash the ELT and/or its antenna usually gets destroyed so that it can't transmit.

OK, I thought this was a tracking device. Not so bad, but, authorities have a track record of misusing so called benign technology. Maybe there is a backdoor where tracking can be activated?

I guess in normal use these things switch on in the event of a crash, establish a cellular connection, and fire off the gps location and basic event data.

Geektastic

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#1293419 29-Apr-2015 11:12

surfisup1000:
frankv:
surfisup1000: Sure, this is for A&E only!!!

And, how will the car communicate? Via cellular networks? Satellite? Does this mean every car needs to pay for a wireless subscription?

And, will the authorities use this to breach peoples privacy?

Just don't see how people would agree to this.

Yes, to be automatically triggered if there's an accident, or can be manually triggered to. Communicates via cellular, I think. No, a car wouldn't need a subscription... it can only call the emergency number.

Will the authorities breach people's privacy? My guess is that the legal definition of 'privacy' will be subtly altered so that the authorities behave legally. The never-fail "safety" argument will be used to justify the changes.

According to the article, this is already available in some BMWs, Volvos, and Citroens. I wonder how many of those owners have opted into this?

Mind you, labeling this as a "tracking device" is misleading. The device doesn't track you. Rather, when you crash (or you hit the button, or the Police/DGSE/CIA/NSA/Illuminati hit a button commanding it to do so) it will figure out where you are and transmit that information. I'm curious how it will figure out where you are though... GPS? Triangulation of cellular signals?

I do wonder about how many false alarms there will be. That seems to be a problem with the equivalent aircraft ELTs. That and the fact that in a crash the ELT and/or its antenna usually gets destroyed so that it can't transmit.

OK, I thought this was a tracking device. Not so bad, but, authorities have a track record of misusing so called benign technology. Maybe there is a backdoor where tracking can be activated?

I guess in normal use these things switch on in the event of a crash, establish a cellular connection, and fire off the gps location and basic event data.

I'd say that if you can track a cellphone, you can do the same with this. The units will do what cellphones do I imagine - ping towers as they pass to say "hi I am here".

It won't be long before DNA is taken at birth for use in forensics. Imagine if they had the entire population on the database - clear up rates would improve no end.

heylinb4nz

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#1293441 29-Apr-2015 11:51

The question should always be (who gains financially from introducing this ?)

If you trust the people gaining the $$$ and are happy for the benefit you get as a consumer \ user of the product..then no problem.

Do you trust government and multi billion $$ car manufacturing industry to do whats best for you ??

Talkiet

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#1293444 29-Apr-2015 11:59

Geektastic: There's also a link in the article to another which suggests that cars without the boxes will be forced off the road by untenable insurance premiums (because additional info such as speed, brake force and so on is collected for accident analysis) within 10 years.

I havent' read the article, but was the untenable insurance and forcing cars off the road a part of the proposal, or a but of conjecture by the author who presumably knows very little about the whole thing?

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

frankv

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#1293462 29-Apr-2015 12:20

Geektastic:
I'd say that if you can track a cellphone, you can do the same with this. The units will do what cellphones do I imagine - ping towers as they pass to say "hi I am here".

So really these are possibly trackable devices, as opposed to tracking devices.

I wonder how much extra comms load it would introduce to the cellular network if there were twice as many devices on the road (one for each driver, plus one for each car)?

Actually, I see the idea of a car cellular comms device as having potential benefits... it allows location (and perhaps remote control) of your car if it is stolen. Also, whilst driving your personal cellphone could be turned off and save batteries and you would use the car-phone instead. Plus real-time monitoring of where your teenager is going in your car.

old3eyes

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#1293471 29-Apr-2015 12:25

Geektastic: Found this story in the Daily Telegraph this morning.

The EU has passed regulations requiring all new cars to be fitted with black boxes by 2018. It purports to cut emergency service response time by between 50% and 60% as it will automatically contact the services in the event of an accident.

Cop goes to accident, plugs his laptop into the black box , see you were doing 52 Kph in a 50 Kph area and gives the injured driver a ticket. Insurer arrives in site does the same thing. "Oh he was speeding" , no insurance payout. ..

These things start out with the best of intension's but soon become a big brother / revenue excersize..

Regards,

Old3eyes

scuwp

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#1293473 29-Apr-2015 12:31

old3eyes:
Geektastic: Found this story in the Daily Telegraph this morning.

The EU has passed regulations requiring all new cars to be fitted with black boxes by 2018. It purports to cut emergency service response time by between 50% and 60% as it will automatically contact the services in the event of an accident.

Cop goes to accident, plugs his laptop into the black box , see you were doing 52 Kph in a 50 Kph area and gives the injured driver a ticket. Insurer arrives in site does the same thing. "Oh he was speeding" , no insurance payout. ..

These things start out with the best of intension's but soon become a big brother / revenue excersize..

Not quite that simple. But fundamentally that can, and does happen now with modern vehicles. You would be amazed the data modern cars and trucks store

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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