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284 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 181399 14-Oct-2015 10:36
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In reading about the now infamous hacks on cars these days  it begs the question for me - why is this even remotely possible?

Why does a car need to be built in such a way that the brake pedal or steering wheel or any other driving component can be operated by the computer? I understand this may be helpful for diagnostics but surely the risk outweighs the benefit?

If, for some reason I cannot fathom, these capabilities must be in a car these days why is the entertainment and internet capable side of the system not air-gapped from the critical systems? Surely it's not hard to design things so these kind of hacks will be impossible.

Am I missing something here?

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  # 1405551 14-Oct-2015 10:47
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Stability control and park assist are the main reasons the car can control the braking and steering. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_stability_control

I
f you watch the full video on how those guys hacked a jeep (I think it was a jeep) what you and I assume to mean air gapped and what Jeep meant by air gapped were two very different things. 

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  # 1405560 14-Oct-2015 10:59
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There was a biiiig long thread about this when the car hacking stories came out....

I believe the result was it is useful for some cases and more to the point, whoever designed the systems did a spectacularly bad job of securing them.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1405563 14-Oct-2015 11:03
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Because car manufacturers haven't thought it through completely....basically.
There should be an isolation between 'outside world communications' and mission critical systems (brakes, drivetrain etc), like you suggest.

I'd imagine future systems will have this.

Part of the issue stems from the fact that many new "assets" these days are internet connected by default out of the factory, even if you didn't ask for/specify, or even pay for the 'feature'.

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  # 1405575 14-Oct-2015 11:17
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Because some manufacturers didn't consider the possibility it could get hacked. Poor design. Some did, and aren't as at risk.



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Ultimate Geek


  # 1405577 14-Oct-2015 11:19
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Thanks for the replies - I'll go hunt that thread down.

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  # 1405616 14-Oct-2015 12:22
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Cost, not bad design Id bet you'd find is the main reason.  To properly separate you'd need two CAN buses = cost.




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  # 1405704 14-Oct-2015 14:47
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Am i right in assuming though that without a wireless data connection to the car it would not be possible to hack?

 
 
 
 


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  # 1405707 14-Oct-2015 14:49
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Wade: Am i right in assuming though that without a wireless data connection to the car it would not be possible to hack?


Harder as you need physical access.  But I wouldn't say impossible.





Previously known as psycik

OpenHAB: Gigabyte AMD A8 BrixOpenHAB with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Xiaomi Humidity and Temperature sensors and Bluetooth LE Sensors
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  # 1405710 14-Oct-2015 14:51
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Wade: Am i right in assuming though that without a wireless data connection to the car it would not be possible to hack?

Its still possible, but requires physical access to the vehicle. Sneak in, hook up the hackery equivalent of a mobile data stick to the ONT, and the car is yours remotely whenever you feel like it.

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  # 1407263 15-Oct-2015 13:37
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Every Geek knows - it is "Because you live in a Matrix"

Your Phone, Tablet, Laptop, PC, Electricity Meter, Smart Home System, your IP cameras in your CCTV system have already been hacked.

It is that old car with no internet connection is what makes YOU incompatible with the Matrix's OS.

The real question is - how long before Matrix will disallow you that uncontrolled ride? cool

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  # 1410931 22-Oct-2015 10:28
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Well this is a particularly germane example !

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11533005





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  # 1410932 22-Oct-2015 10:30
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lchiu7: Well this is a particularly germane example !

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11533005



Not if the reports of a "factory key" are correct.  If they are it is more like "thief stole car using master key".

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