Cabin Preheating on a winter morning

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Cabin Preheating on a winter morning

raytaylor

4014 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#214812 30-May-2017 00:32

Hi All

I have been thinking about some sort of cabin pre-heating on a winter morning.

At the moment I drive a 2012 Korando which is diesel and has no pre-heating or timed engine start function, so I would need to externally and electrically heat the cabin.

I also park the vehicle outside, against the house.

What ideas could you suggest?

I would love something that didnt require a cable to be run through the window - some sort of magnetic coil to transfer electricity through the window would be awesome. Like a wireless charger.

Am very keen to hear some of your ideas

So far the best idea I have is

- A pair of pads sit on top of the spoiler or on the roof racks beside my ladder, which when I back into my carpark at home, they touch a set of hanging pads, like reversing into a charging "dock" or a train. Also helps to know when to stop reversing.

- 12v is then applied to run the fridge/freezer overnight, and a timer kicks in at 7.30am to run a 150 watt heater for an hour or so.

When I hook my freezer direct up to the car battery, it will almost flatten it overnight so I had been half filling it with chilly bin blocks to help regulate the temperature. On a day with four of hours+ of driving or running it will successfully freeze the contents but warms to just icy over night and then warms to cabin temperature after just one day of not using the vehicle, and takes ages to cool back down again. So having overnight power on will probably help with that problem.

Ray Taylor

There is no place like localhost

Spreadsheet for Comparing Electricity Plans Here

1 | 2

20575 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1791468 30-May-2017 06:02

Why is there a freezer in your vehicle? It sounds like you want most of the cabin warm, except the part that's frozen.

I just turn the engine on 10 minutes before I want my car warm. So far no-one has driven away with the car.

Maybe someone will have more practical ideas than me.

raytaylor

4014 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1791485 30-May-2017 08:07

Freezer keeps our lunch and drinks cool - when you have to crawl through hot attics running cables, its nice to have a very cold drink.

I thought about turning on the engine, except the car is outside my flatmates bedroom. As soon as I start the engine, i drive away so he can continue to sleep.

Ray Taylor

There is no place like localhost

Spreadsheet for Comparing Electricity Plans Here

solutionz

589 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1791507 30-May-2017 08:50

Docking station idea sounds cool - possibly with some sort of self-orientating magnetic coupling.

However I would probably look at adding a secondary battery to drive those accessories via timer and/or ACC remote. And/or a remote ignition system.

timmmay

20575 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1791513 30-May-2017 08:55

Yeah a second battery to run the freezer sounds like a good idea, and turn the freezer off at night. I use a chilly bin when I'm working on hot days.

MikeAqua

7773 posts

Uber Geek

#1791527 30-May-2017 09:20

I've seen 12v fan heaters for campervans etc

Put one of those on a relay you can control with a remote fob and it will heat the space.

On the battery front ... you could install a 'house' battery with a VSR. When you are underway, once the start battery is topped up the VSR will divert current to the house battery to charge it.

Mike

lxsw20

3552 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1791534 30-May-2017 09:28

Yeah one of those heaters, a deep cycle battery and a dual battery isolator is probably what you want. I'd expect around the $1000 or so installed, maybe a bit more. Normal car batteries are not good with high drain with no charge. It tends to kill the cells. Hence the want for a deep cycle if running a heater.

MikeAqua

7773 posts

Uber Geek

#1791561 30-May-2017 10:14

A VSR as described in my earlier post

https://www.marine-deals.co.nz/bep-marine-710-125a-vsr-voltage-sensitive-relay

Mike

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

raytaylor

4014 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1792057 30-May-2017 22:43

Thats not a bad idea - I guess a 120ah 12v deep cycle battery could theoretically run the heater for 2 hours. Though I would be giving up a lot of valuable space inside the vehicle. I have almost zero space as it is with all my tools etc in there. The next vehicle will be much bigger.

The docking station idea has got me thinking more - and maybe i could put something on the rear bumper so when I back up against a pair of springs? protruding from the house which meet some contact pads on the car. The bumper is plastic too so there is no risk of shorting if the springs/contacts are a little distant apart.

Ray Taylor

There is no place like localhost

Spreadsheet for Comparing Electricity Plans Here

elpenguino

3419 posts

Uber Geek

#1793373 1-Jun-2017 22:53

Might be a challenge docking accurately - remember those springs might need to carry 20+ amps @ 12 volts....

Do you always go home? Advantage of the battery and an internal system is independence. Putting the energy supply outside the vehicle saves space but means you need that umbilical to be connected every night.

How about an external lead - use a loose-ish or magnetically assisted connector so you can just drive away in the morning. Plug it in when you get home and you're done.

I think if you run mains into your vehicle you might need some kind of vehicle/electrical WOF or CoC.

Or maybe something more low tech like a ski-suit and a hot water bottle.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

richms

28168 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1793399 2-Jun-2017 01:15

When I had to leave stupidly early in the morning and the car was covered in dew and would fog up on the outside as soon as I drove into warmer air, I left a small 600 watt oil heater in the back, with an extension cord going thru the gap in the frameless windows. On a timer. Thru the driver door so no worry about leaving it connected and driving off.

Result was a dew free warmish car with it getting about 15 mins runtime before leaving.

Richard rich.ms

Azzura

603 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#1793443 2-Jun-2017 08:54

Well in Canada to pre-heat the car. When living there -- I use to use oil pan heater (plug the car in).

Others use a cabin heater (plugged into the 120V from house). Basically, a hair dryer on a timer on the passenger seat floor area (or mounted).

Or the remote car starter...

Sidestep

1013 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1793472 2-Jun-2017 09:49

I had a 12V diesel burning cab heater in one of my trucks.
Was on a timer, located in the engine bay, blew heat through the firewall.

Can't remember the brand but http://kiwiev.com/installing-a-diesel-parking-heater here's something similar being installed in an EV.

Scott3

3963 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1794708 4-Jun-2017 23:45

One of the great things about electric cars is that they include this functionality from the factory (and you don't need to wait for the engine to warm before your heater works).

With a diesel car, the options I can see are:

Options I can think of

Put the car in a garage (In a perfect world a heated garage (or at least part of the house so it is a little warmer than outside) - No good for OP
Run an extension cord (not preferred by OP). I used to put a fan heater in my car while I was having breakfast each morning a few years ago :) Make sure you don't forget it.
- Probably the cheapest and most effective.
- Best just to run something out a car window (monsoon shield?) rather than wiring it in permanently to avoid need for campervan electrical WOF.
Diesel fired heater
- Standard Scandinavian way to deal with this problem (probiably the best option. Ready aftermarket exists primarily focused at the scandinavian market where ice scraping is a big inconvenience (and temperatures can get so cold that diesel engines struggle to start if unheated)
- These come in two flavours -
  - Liquid: engine coolant heater (uses car's existing fan and heat exchanger to heat the cabin) - great thing about these is that they can be installed completly under the bonnet, not compromising interior space, and they also can heat the engine block making for easier starting on below freezing mornings. Westebo is the most commonly known brand
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA9QJQm8piU
  - Air: Commonly used on campervans in NZ, most common brand is eberspacher. You can get cheeper ons off alidirect if the price is too high.
    https://www.rvworldstore.co.nz/eberspacher-d2-diesel-heater-2-2kw-motorhome-kit?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKEAjw387JBRDPtJePvOej8kASJADkV9TLgRO8OotlUgAlN2ke31bBgykrMnCNB3D1hH34R0V-cRoCBr7w_wcB
Battery:
- I think battery powered heaters are going to be week and thrash your battery. A typical Campervan sized deep cycle house battery (massive to fit in your car) is 12v and 100Ah. Running at 50% depth of discharge, this only gives you 0.6kWh of energy, or enough to run a 2kW fan heater for 18mins (ignoring internal battery losses which are quite high at this current level). I wouldn't consider using your existing start battery for this duty. They aren't intended to be deep cycled.
Extra low voltage wired:
- Buy a power supply like this: http://waveinverter.co.nz/Accessories/PowerSupply/Powersupply-24v-30A
- Buy two heaters like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/150W-300W-Ceramic-Auto-Car-Truck-Fan-Heater-Portable-Window-Defroster-12V-24V/32639626384.html?spm=2114.40010308.4.7.De8enh
- Buy a cheap plug in timer from the supermarket
- Sort out some kind of Pad /overhead power conductive system yourself.
Remote starter
- The standard USA way to deal with this problem. Ready aftermarket exists (mostly outside of NZ). Only safe on automatic transmission cars!
- Very easy once installed, Leave heater setting cranked up in evening, press the button on a remote at breakfast time, walk out to warm car 20 mins later.
- Downside is it is worse for the engine that starting it and driving gently while warming up. Also you have to walk through a cloud of diesel fumes to get to your car, and car's idling for long periods are quite frowned upon nowadays because of the fumes. (a diesel heater burns much cleaner than a cold engine)
Plug in Block heater (and option cabin heater)
- Standard Canada way to deal with this issue. don't know much about it.
Inductive power transfer
- Small: somthing like this: https://powerbyproxi.com/product/proxi-point150w/
  - Note small allowable air gap (12mm) and lateral clearances to get the full 150W output. - might need to use rails like in a carwash to get your tires in exactly the right spot each time.
  - 150W is a bit small to provide any usefull heating
- Big: Repurpose one of these:https://www.pluglesspower.com/gen1-tech-specs/
  - Run a 2kW fan heater in the car (plus battery heaters, battery chargers, fridge, block heater etc if you want.)
  - May be hard to spoof / disable the EV communication interface and just get AC power
  - Not supported outside North america.

I'm thinking installing a diesel fired heater is the way to go for the "best" solution, and running an extension cord each day is the best option for a cheap solution.

Geektastic

17942 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1794711 5-Jun-2017 00:15

Land Rover used to offer an option that you could dial from a mobile and have it start a seperate fuel burning heater that warmed the engine coolant (I think) so that you had hot air available when you went out to the car from wherever you were. I imagine only people in very cold places would bother. It sounds like a version of one of the options in @Scott3's post above.

I have heated seats and find that is a fine substitute for the (max) 10 minutes the car takes to get warm. I do wish I had the heated steering wheel option though.

You could always adopt the Siberian trucker method - light an open fire under the engine....

ObidiahSlope

260 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1794721 5-Jun-2017 02:25

Geektastic:

I have heated seats and find that is a fine substitute for the (max) 10 minutes the car takes to get warm. I do wish I had the heated steering wheel option though.

You could always adopt the Siberian trucker method - light an open fire under the engine....

An old high country farmer told me his method of warming vehicles left outside in winter. Throw a large hay cover over the vehicle weighing down the edges with rocks to prevent cold air circulating. Then place a hurricane lantern under the engine. The objective was to prevent water in the engine block from freezing rather than heating the cabin. The lamp generated just enough heat to prevent the block from freezing.

+1 for heated seats with added bonus of acting as heat therapy for your back muscles after spending the day lifting bales or toting a load.

Obsequious hypocrite

1 | 2