Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


232 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 103

Trusted

Topic # 222719 25-Aug-2017 13:02
Send private message


My better half's car needed new tyres and since I had the day off, I trundled off to the local tyre store to discuss such.

Being that the price was agreeable, I then got the sell about warranty etc etc, as well as "Would I like to pay extra to have my tyres filled with nitrogen?" No thanks. "But it will make your tyres last longer, give you a smoother ride, will stay at the right pressure and not leak, all for only $5 a tyre" No thanks.

"Are you sure? You only have to pay once and then any outlet across the country will top them up with nitrogen if you need"

But you just said that they won't leak, so why would I need to top them up? Also, the atmosphere is around 78% nitrogen already, so if I was to use air to pump up my tyres, surely the other 22% would just leak out over time, and I'd keep topping them up and eventually I'd be close to 99% nitrogen at the correct pressure anyway?

"Oh no, it doesn't work like that - you really need pure nitrogen in your tyres. You'd have to ask a scientist about the details, I just know that it works"

I'll pass thanks. Although I imagine there are plenty of suckers who don't.



Not so much a question, just a small rant about an event this morning - be interested to hear others views.

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3
3015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1672

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1852495 25-Aug-2017 13:04
2 people support this post
Send private message

SCAM and proven

 

Linux





Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days

3535 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2042

Trusted
Spark NZ

  Reply # 1852497 25-Aug-2017 13:05
Send private message

Name and shame - that's a hell of a hard sell for something that has little if any benefit.

 

Cheers - N

 

 


560 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 479


  Reply # 1852500 25-Aug-2017 13:10
2 people support this post
Send private message

...the principal benefit of using Nitrogen is that the tyre pressure will vary less with temperature changes (compared to regular compressed air).

 

Important on a racetrack where 1-2psi difference might equate to winning or not...  Almost pointless on the road.

 

 


345 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 196

Trusted

  Reply # 1852503 25-Aug-2017 13:14
2 people support this post
Send private message

This explains it all nicely (hint, its a scam) -

 




232 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 103

Trusted

  Reply # 1852507 25-Aug-2017 13:24
Send private message

6FIEND:

...the principal benefit of using Nitrogen is that the tyre pressure will vary less with temperature changes (compared to regular compressed air).


Important on a racetrack where 1-2psi difference might equate to winning or not...  Almost pointless on the road.


 



Sorry @6FIEND, they've slipped you some of the Kool-Aid while you weren't looking...

...there’s only four per cent difference in what engineers call the ‘specific heat’ of air versus the specific heat of nitrogen. What this means is: if those tyres run on air and they jump from 20 degrees C from cold inflation to 40 degrees C after a hot lap, and they start at 32 psi, they’ll finish at 34.184 psi.

If we replace with nitrogen and go again, same heat input but four per cent fewer degrees in temperature rise. So at the end of the lap, 39.2 degrees C, instead of 40. Pressure at the end of the lap will be 34.096 psi. Less than one tenth of a psi pressure difference...


1474 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 741


  Reply # 1852508 25-Aug-2017 13:24
One person supports this post
Send private message

6FIEND:

 

...the principal benefit of using Nitrogen is that the tyre pressure will vary less with temperature changes (compared to regular compressed air).

 

Important on a racetrack where 1-2psi difference might equate to winning or not...  Almost pointless on the road.

 

 

 

 

So you're saying that Charles's Law applies less to Nitrogen than other gases?  Why would that be?

 

I have a family member who runs a garage and sells this service.  He is convinced it works and sells it genuinely because of that.  But to me it's as convincing as homeopathy.


2414 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 273


  Reply # 1852547 25-Aug-2017 13:40
Send private message

Ge0rge:
6FIEND:

 

...the principal benefit of using Nitrogen is that the tyre pressure will vary less with temperature changes (compared to regular compressed air).

 

 

 

Important on a racetrack where 1-2psi difference might equate to winning or not...  Almost pointless on the road.

 

 

 

 

 



Sorry @6FIEND, they've slipped you some of the Kool-Aid while you weren't looking...

 

There is something in it due to the water vapour present in locally produced compressed air v's dry nitrogen. That would vary by season.

 

 

 

I think most people are better off using air and checking regularly. I've had less trouble from slow leakage than random nails and TEK screws. Sticking Nitrogen in and thinking it fixed something gives a false sense of security.


2340 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1132


  Reply # 1852549 25-Aug-2017 13:45
Send private message

Agree with everything everyone above said.

 

Nitrogen still leaks, but oxygen passes through rubber at about twice the rate. Nitrogen will still leak if your valve is faulty or you have a puncture or whatever. All the benefits sold to the OP are potentially real, but negligible. Most are due to the nitrogen not containing any water. There's no particular reason, apart from that it is pointless, that garages couldn't have water traps on their air compressors.

 

Another line salespeople may use is that aircraft tyres are filled with nitrogen... that's large aircraft where a set of tyres costs more than my salary, and is partly to reduce flammability, partly to reduce leakage at high altitude where the pressure differential is much greater, and partly to extend the life of the tyre. Light aircraft just use air in their tyres.

 

 


642 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 261

Subscriber

  Reply # 1852574 25-Aug-2017 14:02
One person supports this post
Send private message

Ge0rge:
 "Would I like to pay extra to have my tyres filled with nitrogen?" 

 

What he really meant to say was..

"Would you like to pay extra to have your tires filled with nitrogen?" "otherwise I'll fill them with this moisture laden air that's come past our un-serviced water trap through an oily airline that's run our impact driver"

 

"and then your TPMS will fail a week from now"


496 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 111


  Reply # 1852605 25-Aug-2017 14:40
Send private message

Not to mention that they aren't filling said tyres in a vacuum, so whatever air was already sitting in there (1 ATM I'm guessing) when the bead seated will remain in there anyway.

 

I do race, and I don't bother with Nitrogen filling.  Partly because of negligible benefit, partly because CBF, mostly because <Insert Nitrogen scammer of choice here> doesn't tend to have outlets at rally service parks or pit areas that tend to be in paddocks on back roads.





4841 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1502


  Reply # 1852606 25-Aug-2017 14:47
One person supports this post
Send private message

 If nitrogen doesn't leak but air does, surely the easiest solution is fill up with air, then everything that is non nitrogen will leak out, leaving a nitrogen filled tyre for free wink


439 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 106


  Reply # 1852669 25-Aug-2017 15:14
Send private message

I found this old Tiff from Fifth Gear clip on the subject.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmnZ4-EUbIk

 

Fully, 100% agree with his last comment


1090 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 425


  Reply # 1852674 25-Aug-2017 15:19
Send private message

RunningMan:

 

 If nitrogen doesn't leak but air does, surely the easiest solution is fill up with air, then everything that is non nitrogen will leak out, leaving a nitrogen filled tyre for free wink

 

 

You do realize that air is about 80% nitrogen right?


4841 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1502


  Reply # 1852679 25-Aug-2017 15:26
Send private message

Wiggum:

 

You do realize that air is about 80% nitrogen right?

 

 

You do realise that once the other 20% leaks out, it's 100% nitrogen right?


1090 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 425


  Reply # 1852682 25-Aug-2017 15:29
Send private message

RunningMan:

 

Wiggum:

 

You do realize that air is about 80% nitrogen right?

 

 

You do realise that once the other 20% leaks out, it's 100% nitrogen right?

 

 

Well the 20% oxygen/Co2 is not going to leak out by itself, without taking the nitrogen with it.


 1 | 2 | 3
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

N4L helping TAKA Trust bridge the digital divide for Lower Hutt students
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:08


Winners Announced for 2018 CIO Awards
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:03


Logitech Rally sets new standard for USB-connected video conference cameras
Posted 18-Jun-2018 09:27


Russell Stanners steps down as Vodafone NZ CEO
Posted 12-Jun-2018 09:13


Intergen recognised as 2018 Microsoft Country Partner of the Year for New Zealand
Posted 12-Jun-2018 08:00


Finalists Announced For Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 6-Jun-2018 15:12


Vocus Group and Vodafone announce joint venture to accelerate fibre innovation
Posted 5-Jun-2018 10:52


Kogan.com to launch Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 4-Jun-2018 14:34


Enable doubles fibre broadband speeds for its most popular wholesale service in Christchurch
Posted 2-Jun-2018 20:07


All or Nothing: New Zealand All Blacks arrives on Amazon Prime Video
Posted 2-Jun-2018 16:21


Innovation Grant, High Tech Awards and new USA office for Kiwi tech company SwipedOn
Posted 1-Jun-2018 20:54


Commerce Commission warns Apple for misleading consumers about their rights
Posted 30-May-2018 13:15


IBM leads Call for Code to use cloud, data, AI, blockchain for natural disaster relief
Posted 25-May-2018 14:12


New FUJIFILM X-T100 aims to do better job than smartphones
Posted 24-May-2018 20:17


Stuff takes 100% ownership of Stuff Fibre
Posted 24-May-2018 19:41



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.